Remove attached soft booties?

[BobbyT22]

I recently purchased an older Parkway System 7mm neoprene drysuit. From reading Scubaboard I think this is the same as a Poseidon unisuit. When I tried it on, I noticed the attached rubber soft booties are way too big. My feet feel lost in them, and my fins fit very poorly. Is it possible to cut the attached booties off and replace them with neoprene ankle seals? I also have a 7mm semi dry suit which doesn't fit well and I could scavenge the ankle seals from that or just buy new ones. It looks like it would be pretty simple with an industrial sewing machine and some neoprene knowhow. My major concern would of course be leaks. Please let me know if anyone has done something like this. Thanks, Rob.

 

[dave4868]

A couple of questions and suggestions come to mind....

Wouldn't installing ankle seals create a semi-dry out of a suit that doesn't fit snugly enough to function well as a semi-dry? Quite a loss of value and utility with that choice, I think.

Booties that are oversized by one or two sizes can be filled out nicely with extra insulatiion and/or a neoprene sock or boot. You might need to get fins with a larger foot pocket, but that's not unusual with a drysuit.

Special sewing machines are used to pinch and sew the neoprene just on one side. You'll probably only find that kind of machine at a shop that does neoprene work. If you pay for such a service, you might as well have good-fitting booties sewn on.

How many sizes oversize do you estimate the boots are?

Dave C

 

[StanS]

I dove with poseidon suits for many years and replaced my share of neck and wrist seals . Neoprene is very easy to glue and repair . I would not worry about the sewing as this is really not that important and you will create a lot of leaks if the correct sewing machine is not used . You could either glue on ankle seals or purchase neoprene boots of the corrct size and glue them on . Simply fit whatever you are going to use to the suit and then coat each of the parts seperately with neoprene cement(making sure to use new cement which should be good and runny and not partially dried out like I have seen with many cement bottles). After letting each part dry so that they are no longer tacky re-coat each part with a second coat and wait till they are tacky( usually about 8 to 10 minutes) . After they become tacky simply press the parts together working your way around the seal pressing out any remaining air . Remember to fit each part carefully as neoprene cement is just like contact cement and you get one chance when you put the parts together . Done correctly the seal is as strong as the neoprene itself . Good luck .

 

[BobbyT22]

Thanks to both of you for your input.

Dave, I agree with you about not making the suit a bad semi-dry. Good point - kind of defeats the purpose. I would guess the boots are at least four sizes too big. My feet are swimming in them, and I think they are even unsafe to walk in, especially on a wet deck. I really dont like the feel either, they are flimsy rubber and a weak point on what otherwise looks like a good used suit.

Stan, I might try your suggestion. I'm pretty handy with cements, epoxies, etc from years as a do it yourselfer. I just finshed a DIY canister light, but that is another topic

Do either of you have any suggestions on what I should look for in a dry suit boot? My guess is the standard comfort and fit, maybe a little big to allow for socks.

I don't mind using this suit as an experiment...didnt pay that much on ebay...and I kind of enjoy resurrecting older gear instead of paying a ton for new stuff.

Also, as is probably obvious, I am new to dry suit diving. Any tips on how to get started technique wise? I am lucky enough to live near a very diveable quarry (lake Rawlings) and my winter project is to get proficient in the use of this suit. I could take a course, but I'd rather partner up with a buddy and learn through experience.

Thanks again,
Rob

 

[dave4868]

Thanks to both of you for your input.

Dave, I agree with you about not making the suit a bad semi-dry. Good point - kind of defeats the purpose. I would guess the boots are at least four sizes too big. My feet are swimming in them, and I think they are even unsafe to walk in, especially on a wet deck. I really dont like the feel either, they are flimsy rubber and a weak point on what otherwise looks like a good used suit.

Heh, four sizes is little too much to adapt....even for a cheapskate like me!

Let me ask you first, does the rest of the suit fit you adequately when you're wearing undergarments as thick as those anticipated? If it's too baggy, it may allow air to shift rapidly in the suit, which might up-end you and possibly drag you feet-first to the surface.

Uncontrolled inverted ascent is the main safety risk in drysuit diving.

If it were me, and I love to adapt and modify gear, I would first make sure it is not too baggy before I invested much time in this.

Assuming you don't have non-cotton undergarments yet and that you're going to be diving in water in the 40's at times, I'd suggest you don a couple layers of sweats to similate the thickness of more suitable undergarments. Then don the suit and see if it fits.

By the way, I suggested sweats just because they're probably readily available, but in general, cotton isn't a good fabric to use for your undergarments because it absorbs body moisture and becomes damp and cold.

A good fit should allow you enough range of motion to perform the more critical diving maneuvers and positions. The fit should not be tightly compressing the undergarment and not be so loose as to create several inches of "tent" anywhere.

If it fits adequately, I'd say it's probably safe enough to use and worth working on.

Do either of you have any suggestions on what I should look for in a dry suit boot? My guess is the standard comfort and fit, maybe a little big to allow for socks.

I don't mind using this suit as an experiment...didnt pay that much on ebay...and I kind of enjoy resurrecting older gear instead of paying a ton for new stuff.

I'd probably follow the good advice from StanS, namely to get the right-sized neoprene boot and glue it on.

I think it will be important to match the tapers so the boot will mate with the leg of the suit for that glued butt-joint.

That might mean ordering the boot the manufacturer recommends.

Since you're not going to be adding the reinforcement of stitching to the butt-joint of the neoprene boot, I'd give a hard boot some real thought, just to reduce the chance of the joint separating, since it would use a lap-joint which would be easier to glue and stronger.

A good contact cement is probably needed for that joint, since they are dissimilar materials. I use something called S-18, and industrial-strength neoprene contact cement. It's what I use to attach my latex seals and I just did a drysuit zipper with it. I have complete faith in it.

Maybe Stan can advise about the possibility of reinforcing the inside of the suit where the neoprene boot butt-joins the leg, such as with a thin overlay of neoprene or some other flexible, stretchable material. I'd find that reassuring, as a flooded suit is no fun!

I do think the neoprene boot would be warmer and more comfortable than a hard boot. (I use the DUI compressed neoprene footies and Rockboots, which are very warm and comfortable.)

Also, as is probably obvious, I am new to dry suit diving. Any tips on how to get started technique wise? I am lucky enough to live near a very diveable quarry (lake Rawlings) and my winter project is to get proficient in the use of this suit. I could take a course, but I'd rather partner up with a buddy and learn through experience.

For most people, I'd say a course isn't necessary to learn the basics to avoid drysuit hazards.

I followed the great guidance in "DRY SUIT DIVING A Guide to Diving Dry" by Barsky, Long, and Stinton. For me, that book and about ten minutes of in-water practice was safe and adequate preparation.

Here's some info on Amazon's page:

Amazon.com: Dry Suit Diving (Specialty Diver Series): Books: Steven M. Barsky

Best of luck! Let us know how it comes out. This will be a fun project!

Dave C

 

[Bob3]

I've glued booties onto drysuits that have had ankle seals, but not the other way around.
I've also changed quite a few booties on my Unisuits, as well as face seals, neck seals, and cuffs.
If you can get your hands on some seam tape you'll have a professional grade job when you're done, as long as you get the rest of the gluing down. (follow Stan's good advise)
The #1 mistake made is rushing the glue & not allowing it to dry completely tack-free before smushing the 2 parts together.
So... does your suit have the crotch zipper?

 

[BobbyT22]

Dave,
You are a source of great information. Oddly enough, the rest of the suit seems to fit fine....looser than my semi-dry, but not too loose. Of course I won't be able to tell until I try it, but from an initial try on, it feels like I would expect a drysuit to fit. It is a large, and I am 5'9 and about 175 lbs. I lift weights alot so I am pretty broad shouldered and have thick legs, so I usually have to go with a large size in most everything and then shorten legs and sleeves. But man, the suit just has these gargantuan feet, totally incongruous with the rest....like the manufacturer wanted to be OK if sasquatch decided to take up drysuit diving. I bought a pair of XS scuba no-zipper slip on 7mm neoprene booties, with hard sole online for 40 bucks which should be here in a few days, along with some zipper wax and neoprene cement (love scuba.com) and I'll try to cement them on probably next week using your advice. Will get the book too, exactly what I am looking for.
Bob, yup, the suit has a crotch zipper. It looks like it is in really good shape. I didn't want to spend a grand or two on a new crushed neoprene or trilam, so I figured I'd start with this. Consensus on the board is that these suits are warm as hell as long as you don't mind the weight. I'm pretty young and strong so for now I am OK with a heavier suit. Will take some pics of the project and let you guys know how it turns out. Thanks a million. Rob

 

[Bob3]

I've got 2 of the crotch zip Unisuits, they're actually my favorite model. (no need to get out of the suit to go to the bathroom)
Both I modified so my Desco pot could clamp right onto the suit, keeping me nice & dry.
4 hours in 28° water is easily doable with a couple layers of extra undies. 8 hours in those temps will chill ya though.
That model was used by Cousteau when he made his Antarctic trip, along with Poseidon Cyklon regs & FFMs. An AquaLung patch was carefully placed over the Poseidon emblem on the chest.
If you can get your hands on a copy of an original manual, it has one of the best neoprene gluing & fabrication instructions that I've seen. They run ya through cuffs & face seals, cutting them out of sheet neoprene & gluing to the suit. (I happen to have a fairly huge scanned copy in PDF format)
You'll probably find that the booties are going to be smaller in diameter than what the ankle area of the suit is. You'll have to cut a couple "darts", little triangles, to glue into the seam area of the bootie so its diameter will match the bottom of the leg. I always put mine in the front, less chance for them to cause irritation but depending on how the boot is made, snipping out the sewn/glued seam usually results in a better fit.
Those are the areas where some seam tape comes in handy.
I always used the neoprene tape, skin 1 side, open cell the other, about 1/16" thick to reinforce stressed seams. Mar-Vel used to carry it but I always got mine from a commercial diving supply joint just outside of New Orleans. The Melco tape should work about as good though too, but if ya get into a jam some heavy cotton hem binding tape soaked in wetsuit cement will work. For doing the ankle area it would probably be better to use something stretchy though.

 

[BobbyT22]

Bob...Some more basic questions...should I cement the leg of the suit inside or outside of the booties, and what do you mean by "darts"? Also, I have never used seam tape before, how does that work? Can you confirm that the Parkway System truly is the same as the Poseidon Unisuit? Some SB posts indicate it is, but not authoritatively.

Dave....ordered the drysuit book. $3.95 from Amazon...awesome.

A million thanks....
Rob

 

[Bob3]

There shouldn't be any inside/outside, what you need is a butt type joint where the edges are glued to each other.
You want #1, not #3:

Doing a lap joint will result in a very bulky, restrictive joint that'll leave you cussing every time you get in or out of the suit.
The boots will [probably] be smaller in diameter than the legs so you have to increase their diameter by cutting a slit down the boot & expanding it to match the leg diameter.
The wedge-shaped hole thus formed will need to be filled with a matching wedge of material, usually taken from the part cut off from the boot's top.
Seam tape is pretty basic stuff; you pin it down on a piece of cardboard before applying glue.
Not pinning it down usually results in a glob of something or other 'cuz the material likes to warp and curl a bit when wet.

A "dart" is a wedge shaped pucker in a garment that allows for compound contours in fabric - check out the bust area of your girlfriend's (or wife, etc etc) blouse or dress.
But don't get caught staring.:no

Dart (sewing), a structure used in sewing to shape a garment around a convex body part, such as the bustline, shoulderblade, buttocks or belly. It is a stitched pointed pleat that permits shaping in the middle of a pattern piece rather than at a join between two pieces


The Airspeed Press book, Wetsuit and Drysuit Maintenance & Repair has all the little hints & tricks that can have your job looking like it was done at the factory, like using masking tape & Plasti-Dip to turn wetsuit boots into dry boots.

The crotch-zip Parkway suit is most definitely a Poseidon Unisuit. They were made in Perth Amboy NJ.
In later years another outfit bought the rights to use the Parkway name but they never made any drysuits.