Regulators

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Two of the shops I talked to also mentioned using owned gear instead of the rental gear. But they both said I didn't need to.

Just that it's nice to "proof" test your gear under supervision during training, instead of on your own a few months later. We're going to buy the same gear recommended regardless of before or after training. Not much is going to change in 5 dives. Us newbs really are at the mercy of the shops taste, and what we can learn here.

If by "what we can learn here" you mean scubaboard, then I agree.

That said, you absolutely are NOT at the mercy of the shops' taste, though, no matter where you are. It may mean sending your regs off for servicing rather than having them serviced locally (many shops still send them out) but you don't have to buy only what your local shop sells. You are the one who gets to determine if it's the right gear for you, not the shop. If it happens to be the right gear for you, and they have a price that you're happy with, support your local shop, especially if they've given you a good experience otherwise.

I, however, highly recommend the used market. You will get a much better price in the long run, if you're comfortable with buying used. Have any regs serviced, and they're "good as new" no matter what anyone tells you. The first time a reg hits the water it's used, just like driving a car of the dealer's lot. They perform the same whether they're used or not (once serviced.) Look through the classifieds here, on decostop, and elsewhere to find gear. Look here for details on how to determine whether used gear is right for you and worth the price: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...ying-used-discriminating-shoppers-primer.html

And one last thing, "the best you can afford" isn't necessarily the most expensive, especially when it comes to regulators. A $150 HOG works just as well as the $700 Titanium Aqualung which works just as well as the Scubapro. These days any reg you buy with a reputable name (and most with a "no-name") on it will last a lifetime if serviced properly and will breath nearly identically under water.
 
I'm getting all of my "fitted" gear locally. Dry suit, fins, boots etc. $2000 easy. That's enough local support.

But my scuba unit, I'll build myself. The shops don't exactly carry what I'm after anyways. (DSS large kydex plate, LCD30. DGX Dive Rite XT streamlined reg kit.) I'll either send the regs back to the manufacturer, or service them myself (if possible).

The used market around here is a disaster. 70% of the cost of new, and needs tested soon. I'm just going new. An $800 set of double HP100's is still $550 used. LOL.
 
Hard to mess up a tank. Save yourself some money if you can get them for 550, if they have current hydros, you will be getting a deal. HP steel tanks will hold there value forever. I would offer them cash and get them to knock the cost of the next hydro rather than new.
 
Buliwyf, doubles are generally going to be the exception to the rule, with respect to cost. They retain their value quite well, compared to single tanks and other equipment, simply because they are so "niche". For what it's worth, though, I bought a set of double HP100s for $300 (but they needed hydro and vis) and then sold the manifold (since I don't dive doubles) here for ~$100, if I remember correctly.

If you're just getting into it, take your time before buying the doubles and if you find them for the price you indicated it's still a pretty decent price, certainly better than full price new, and they aren't in any worse shape (most likely) than the new cost.

EDIT: You will find a lot of people (everywhere) who think their 3 times used gear from 1985 is still worth what they paid for it, but there are always deals to be had if you can afford to be patient and keep watching for them.
 
The used market around here is a disaster. 70% of the cost of new, and needs tested soon. I'm just going new. An $800 set of double HP100's is still $550 used. LOL.

$550 for a set of double steel tanks isn't out of line.

I'm selling several sets of LP 95s for $400 each with modular valves and I throwing in the bands and isolators if desired for another $50, and that's a below the market price as I want to move them and have 4 sets to sell.

If you're talking Worthington X7-100s then $550 is a steal as you currently can't get them new.

Also, the only tanks I have ever had fail were a pair of Worthington steel tanks I bought new, that then failed their first hydro test. The company (XS Scuba) replaced them at no charge - other than shipping. However between shipping and the failed hydro tests, I was still out $125, and it took a couple months to resolve.

I'd have been far better off buying used tanks for $250-$300 less, and I'm actually more comfortable buying steel tanks that have been in service and passed their first hydro test.

In any case, aside from that rarity with some exempt/special permit tanks, steel tanks and in particular 3AA steel tanks, essentially have no fatigue life and will last forever provided you don't get water in them and let it go unchecked. Pits from rust are pretty much the only thing that will kill a steel tank.
 
One more thing, Buliwyf, if you're interested in servicing your own regs/gear, look at HOG regs (they even support owner servicing) and get copies of the books "Regulator Savvy" (by Wolfinger) and "Regulator Maintenance and Repair" (by Harlow). Both are worth their weight and you'll never need another reference except possibly the manufacturers' parts list to do maintenance on your regs.
 
.../

.../And one last thing, "the best you can afford" isn't necessarily the most expensive, especially when it comes to regulators. A $150 HOG works just as well as the $700 Titanium Aqualung which works just as well as the Scubapro. These days any reg you buy with a reputable name (and most with a "no-name") on it will last a lifetime if serviced properly and will breath nearly identically under water.

I agree with this to a point.

It's true that most respected companies make quality regulators and that those high end regulators all breath pretty well.

However:

1. Companies differ quite a bit in their ability and willingness to support older regulators. Aqualung and Scubapro are two companies that still support most of the regulators they've every made, at least in terms of annual service kits. For example is you bring in a Mk 1 with an R109 Adjustable second stage, or a MK III with a R108 High Performance second stage, I can still get the annual service parts to service it, and they'll even still be in stock.

These are regulators that are over 45 years old, but they can still be serviced and even better, in some cases they can be upgraded. For example you can take an R109 "Adjustable" and give it balanced poppet system from the "Balanced Adjustable, and that poppet will be the same poppet used in the current S600. Scubapro in most cases designs improvements so they are backward compatible into older models, giving them the equivalent of a service life extension program.

The only Scubapro regulators that I'll have trouble getting annual service parts for are the Mk VII (for the honker side of the reg, the other side is a plain old Mk V), the Pilot, the Air 1, and the first generation Air 2.

The machined "hard" parts are a little more difficult to come by as companies eventually run out of parts stocks, but parts like regulator first stage bodies and pistons don't generally wear out, unless the regulator literally has tens of thousands of dives or, more commonly, has been badly neglected and allowed to corrode.

The same applies with Aqualung/US Divers regulators. Pretty much all the various Conshelf series reg can be serviced as can their numerous descendants.

At the other extreme you have companies that sell variations on a few OEM designs and they don't always have the same staying power in terms of long term parts and service support, and while you'll see similar designs with different brand labels, they are not always equal when it comes to internal tolerances and quality.

Hog is a good example. Their initial offerings were priced very well and SOME of them breathed very well. Others were however dogs due to how the wide tolerances in parts sometimes stacked. And I've heard from a few divers and techs who saw some failures such as burst diaphragms that just should not have ever happened.

My impression is that they've since got their quality issues under control and the tolerances seem to be more consistent, but I still hesitate to recommend them.


Dive Rite is a good example of a company that sells great regs, but comes up a little short on long term support. They sell very high quality regulators, and while the design is a common OEM design, they make some of the components in house and they order the rest of the parts to very high specifications. They are high quality regulators with very good performance, and over the years they keep getting better.

But that's also their weakness. You run a real risk of buying a Dive Rite reg today that won't be fully supported just a few years from now as they make evolutionary changes, but those changes are not made with an eye toward backward compatibility. Dive Rite is owned and operated by very active divers and they continually make things better, but they don't always consider the long term impact on customers who have the older stuff, and it's a flaw in the business model that costs them some sales.

I recently needed a pair of right hand inlet regulators and bought a pair of XT2 second stages. They perform every bit as well as my Scubapro G250 and G250Vs, and they are less than half the price of a new G260 - but I have no illusions about getting 25 plus years of service out of them. Unless DR changes it's business model slightly, they won't be supported to the same degree that a G260 would be. I also got the XT2s at cost, so the paid price to MSRP ratio is about 1 to 4, which is hard to beat in the short term and if I am left hanging 5 years from now rather than 20 years from now, it's still a break even deal on a cost per year basis.
 
With regards to the lds the only time I would be wary is if they were trying to get you to buy everything in one brand IE: if they were trying to sell you everything scuba pro brand or everything hollies or everything sherwood
Ask any diver here and 99.9% of the time they will give you at least 3 different name brands of equipment that they own
Each dive equipment manufacturer specializes in a few key pieces of equipment but produce many types different brands make better products then others don't limit yourself to one brand find things that fit comfortably and function well rather then just for the look if you can find stuff used great but used is a buyers beware market so do your homework and don't be afraid to ask around for peoples opinions on things
 
Hi everyone!
I just have a quick question. First off, I'm new to the scuba diving world and am just getting my kit together to start my initial dive training. So, as a scuba virgin, I'm not all that knowledgeable about my gear.
My question is this: I just received my primary regulator and octopus and, being the typical kid-at-heart, I immediately put them in my mouth. Now, this is where I became confused. I can't breathe through them with ease. Does it have to be connected to air tanks for them to work? When I attempt to breathe through them now it sounds as though the diaphragm is flapping quickly back and forth. Is this normal or are they broken?

Thanks all! :D

Sean

Hello Sean,
I'm surprised you're not being provided with rental equipment while you're learning/training for your OW. I'm also intrigued and concerned that your LDS was okay with your purchasing breathing apparatus as you're not yet certified. Maybe it's just me, but you might want to consider another LDS to do future training/business with as this place seems more interested in $$.
 
I didn't suck very hard at all. It sounds like a duck call when I blow in it.....nothing when I inhale because I can't inhale. Hopefully it isn't broken.
That sounds completely normal. In fact, it's a test to make sure your reg is working. When hooked to a tank, with valve off. You should not be able to inhale. If you can, that indicates that something isn't right. Could be just that tank isn't seated right, or could be something else. What you described sounds completely normal.
They said I could rent but that it's usually best to purchase your own so you can train with your own. I dunno. I'm already thinking of buying new regs anyway so I can have spares.
What they said is actually true. It is best to train on your own gear. Problem is that most student's aren't knowledgeable enough to get the right stuff, so it would really depend on how they said it. If they pushed you toward purchase, you may want to find another shop down the road. If the instructor's good, I'd continue with the course, but look around at other places down the road. I drive past the original shop I trained at to get to the shop I prefer to do business with.

My daughter got certified this past year. She's 10. She trained on her own gear. I made that decision for her as I wanted her to practice on what she'd be using. I also did this so she'd be familiar with my gear, as I rigged her gear identical to mine (just sized for her, of course). I know her trainer, so I was able to attend the OW dives. I watched from a distance. It was cool to see her enjoying herself underwater. During one of the dives on the first day, I started to wonder how well the students would actually remember the drills they practiced. It's one thing to do a regulator retrieval on command (prepared), it's quite another to do an unplanned one. My questions were answered on the 3rd OW dive. One of the other students accidentally knocked her primary regulator out of her mouth. It went into freeflow and went behind her where she couldn't immediately find it. She kept her cool and grabbed her alternate, cleared and resumed breathing. By that time, I was there and helped her out. Her instructor was quite impressed with how she handled it.

Oh yeah, BTW. What regulator did you get? Honestly, you really can't go wrong with most regulators. About the only one that would be a mistake would be to buy a non-sealed reg for cold-water diving.
 

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