Warhammer
Guest
LOL!! I find that quiet amusing, Mike. LOL!
Regulators and Nitrox
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LOL!! I find that quiet amusing, Mike. LOL!
Heads Up
Contributor
Originally posted by Warhammer
BTW, Heads Up, Apeks doesn't market their standard line of regulators as "nitrox compatible". To the contrary, they say you should have them made nitrox compatible prior to use with nitrox. They do however sell a nitrox ready regulator,. They made this change shortly after Aqualung bought the company out a year or so ago. Prior to that, they were all nitrox compatible. See what I mean.
Just found this on the Apeks UK website - is the Aqualung deal purely a US thing?
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
No it's not.
Ed
No it's not.
Ed
I have just completed my Nitrox Cert. and my instruction as well as the dealer I bought a new reg. and nitrox computer from both told me that in reality any mix less than 40% can be used with any regulator.
SSI Enriched Air Nitrox Speciality Manual states:
The 40 percent rule pg. 33
"What is the 40 percent rule? Simply stated, when any equipment item is exposed to gas mixtures with FO2s of no more than 40 percent, no special preparation, modification or maintenance procedures are required."
"If scuba cylinders and valves will be exposed to pure oxygen, or Enriched Air mixtures of more than 40 percent, then they must be 02 clean and 02 service rated."
"Although the 40 percent rule is widely followed, its acceptance is not universal."
hope this helps,
Todd
SSI Enriched Air Nitrox Speciality Manual states:
The 40 percent rule pg. 33
"What is the 40 percent rule? Simply stated, when any equipment item is exposed to gas mixtures with FO2s of no more than 40 percent, no special preparation, modification or maintenance procedures are required."
"If scuba cylinders and valves will be exposed to pure oxygen, or Enriched Air mixtures of more than 40 percent, then they must be 02 clean and 02 service rated."
"Although the 40 percent rule is widely followed, its acceptance is not universal."
hope this helps,
Todd
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
Well the 40% rule is a myth that is blindly followed in the diving industry with no regards to the technical standards of 23.5/25% nor to the lack of hard evidence to support this alledged 40% rule.
Ed
Well the 40% rule is a myth that is blindly followed in the diving industry with no regards to the technical standards of 23.5/25% nor to the lack of hard evidence to support this alledged 40% rule.
Ed
Lost Yooper
Guest
Todd,
It's a "myth" that has been "blindly followed" for years and years by one of the most conservative industries known -- virtually without incident (at least nothing that has crossed my eyes). I'll challange anyone to find a reg (excluding the Atomics), tank, or anything else scuba related, cleaned or not, that has caused fire as the result of being exposed to ANY percentage of O2 -- including 100%. Even if there is one or two incidents, it tells me the odds of fire are virtually nill and are probably the result of poor filling technique or outright obvious neglect.
This subject goes around and around, and I quite enjoy it because real life again butts heads with laboratory science. Theoretically, a scientist can make just about anything happen, but so what? I'll believe real life "evidence" 99.9% of time.
Don't sweat it Todd.
Mike
It's a "myth" that has been "blindly followed"
for years and years by one of the most conservative industries known -- virtually without incident (at least nothing that has crossed my eyes). I'll challange anyone to find a reg (excluding the Atomics), tank, or anything else scuba related, cleaned or not, that has caused fire as the result of being exposed to ANY percentage of O2 -- including 100%. Even if there is one or two incidents, it tells me the odds of fire are virtually nill and are probably the result of poor filling technique or outright obvious neglect. This subject goes around and around, and I quite enjoy it because real life again butts heads with laboratory science. Theoretically, a scientist can make just about anything happen, but so what? I'll believe real life "evidence" 99.9% of time.
Don't sweat it Todd.
Mike
sharpenu
Contributor
I can't speak about lower O2 percentages, but I CAN tell you about higher. In higher percentages, oxygen WILL cause fires and explosions. There was a firefighter about 4 years ago who was putting a regulator on an O2 bottle and it susequently exploded, killing him. The investigation found that the department had been wrapping tape arond the valve to mark full cylinders. When you wanted to put a reg on the tank, you removed the tape and put it on. This was a common practice at the time. The explosion in this case was caused by oxygen being exposed to the residue of the glue from the tape. DOT, as a result issued a notice to oxygen providers to discontinue this practice. (We use teflon plumbers tape with no adhesive now) Just ilustrating, it doesnt take much. Be VERY CAREFUL with O2. However, I do believe that medium levels of O2 (up to 40%) would be safe. I have used all three of my regs with NITROX with no problems. All of my tanks have been cleaned, however.
Note that O2 cleaning is required for blending, because the tank is exposed to 100% O2. Stations that fill using denitrogenated air (membrane system - also known as DnAx) don't have to be O2 cleaned. They are marked appropriately. -- DnAx Enriched Air
Note that O2 cleaning is required for blending, because the tank is exposed to 100% O2. Stations that fill using denitrogenated air (membrane system - also known as DnAx) don't have to be O2 cleaned. They are marked appropriately. -- DnAx Enriched Air
Warhammer
Guest
Then they have changed their policy. This is an exert taken from my Apeks manual, which came with a TX50 3-stage set that I bought last January.
! This regulator is designed and intended for use only with clean, compressed atmospheric air (21% oxygen and 79% nitrogen), meeting the requirements of the EN 132 standard, appendix A. DO NOT use this equipment with any other gas or enriched oxygen mixture above 23% oxygen. Failure to observe this warning may result in serious injury or death due to fire or explosion.
Note: Apeks offers a separate line of regulators which are specifically designed and manufactored for use with oxygen enriched air. For more information about these models, or upgrade options for your regulator, consult your authorized Apeks dealer.
Seems they adopted Ed's rule before he did, then changed their minds. Hehe.
Lost Yooper
Guest
You need three basic components to get an O2 fire: O2, fuel, and heat. If you take away any of the three then you can prevent fire. The guys who do zero O2 cleaning or filtering at all take away the heat part of the equation by filling slowly.
The real reason that O2 cleaning is important to the industry is because you can't trust people on a mass scale. Time is money to the industry, and in this climate of vicious lawsuits, I don't blame the industry for their "strict" standards. In all honesty, it wouldn't surprise me to see the industry adopt the 23% rule due to the lawsuit problems of having a scientist out there saying "I told ya so". It's a crock, but that's the world we live in. Putting money and lawsuit issues aside, and looking at the track record of O2 exposure through out history (especially scuba), the real danger is extremely remote.
Mike
The real reason that O2 cleaning is important to the industry is because you can't trust people on a mass scale. Time is money to the industry, and in this climate of vicious lawsuits, I don't blame the industry for their "strict" standards. In all honesty, it wouldn't surprise me to see the industry adopt the 23% rule due to the lawsuit problems of having a scientist out there saying "I told ya so". It's a crock, but that's the world we live in. Putting money and lawsuit issues aside, and looking at the track record of O2 exposure through out history (especially scuba), the real danger is extremely remote.
Mike
Lost Yooper
Guest
Of course, there's always the issues of marketing too. The 23% rule opens up the market for selling "special" Nitrox regs with perty green faceplates and the perty green hose covers earlier. They should come out with perty green BCs and perty green pressure gauge covers, but why stop there?. Dry suits and dry suit underwear should now be O2 cleaned too. The dealers would love it for the O2 cleaning services they would have to do. There's heck of lot more (money) to this whole issue than most give it credit for, IMO.
Mike
Mike
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