Regulator Swivels, good or bad??

[tursiops]

My brother-in-law's Omniswivel on his primary blew apart while we were on a deepish non-deco dive; he was surrounded by a cloud of bubbles that forced him to the surface; I jumped on him and tried to slow him down as I turned off his gas and gave him my primary while I was putting my necklaced 2nd into my own mouth. Lots to do in just few seconds. Everybody was OK. But no more swivels, including all those folks watching in dismay. Sure, proper pre-checking and maintenance of the swivel might have prevented that; but we are all using elbows now. Problem solved.

 

[Nemrod]

The OP asked about swivels. Not DIR. There is no reason the octopus secondary cannot be placed on a bungee about the neck with a fisherman slip knot. It works fine and releases easily for donation. Primary short hose over the shoulder, has worked fine for decades and will continue to.

As to running the primary under the shoulder, as I often do and will continue to do so, I seem to have never lost it in some 54 years of diving. It is easy to make up problems that in practice do not exist.

A 40 inch hose under shoulder with 90 degree swivel, primary donate, secondary necklaced:



Standard rigging, 24 inches primary over shoulder, secondary for donation (octopus) on longer hose under shoulder with 90 degree swivel and necklaced (I do need to shorten her necklace, I forget how tiny she is sometimes):



My wife was YMCA certified in 1979, she has a lot of debacle free dives under her weight belt, maybe she can do things tech divers cannot do? Surely?

The swivels she has on either her octopus secondary or her under shoulder primary work fine and do not add a potential failure point in practical use.

 

[Marty Bess]

I have tried swivels and tried a 90 degree elbow. I ended up with and have stuck with a miflex hose that is slightly longer with no swivel or elbow. The 90 degree was comfy. My concern is that donating my primary reg to someone would be awkward with a swivel or elbow, since I prefer to grab my reg by the hose. Perhaps this just takes practice to get used to and is not a big deal.

There's also some nice mouthpieces that help with jaw fatigue. This one is similar to what I use. It is primarily held in with the upper teeth with little to no need to bite down. Makes it very easy to relax one's jaw.
View attachment 814458

I do have that mouthpiece already. I think my hose to short as to most of the problem, but a new flexible braided hose would be pricey.

 

[Boarderguy]

I do have that mouthpiece already. I think my hose to short as to most of the problem, but a new flexible braided hose would be pricey.

A 40" is $22 from dgx. How long are you looking for?

 

[tursiops]

a new flexible braided hose would be pricey.

You don't need the expensive braided hose. Get a flexible rubber hose that is longer than what you have. Here is an example:UltraFlex Low Pressure Hose 28

 

[Nemrod]

I do have that mouthpiece already. I think my hose to short as to most of the problem, but a new flexible braided hose would be pricey.

Not sure exactly what the problem is but hoses are not pricey:

UltraFlex Low Pressure Hose 28

This is the most flexible hose you have ever seen / used! No more fighting with your stiffer rubber hoses with these ultraflex hoses!! Get ready for the latest hose to hit the market! Our New Ultraflex hose acts like a braided hose but is made in a super soft rubber compound that allows you to...

www.piranhadivemfg.com

The genuine AL product is the best, they come in a standard and small size:

 

[jadairiii]

Oh god, look at this.
Heartburn city!
View attachment 814696

Except when I was certified, our black steel tanks were epoxy coated, so they were all slowly rusting away under the epoxy! I had an orange steel 72 that as I put it in the fill trough a large chunk of the bottom fell off.....needless to say, the dive shop refused to fill it....

 

[Zef]

I did not recommend primary donate. OP asked about jaw fatigue. I explained my experience, which included using a swivel and an elbow. I explained why I chose the gear I chose which was influenced by the fact that I would donate my primary. It is not a separate conversation, because one gear choice can impact other gear choices.

Does the mention of possible challenges of donating a custom molded mouthpiece also warrant a separate thread? If someone asked about getting a backplate and wing for the first time, would mentioning the need to consider how they plan to weight themselves require a different thread, as well?

The comments about the custom moldable mouthpiece introduced that to the discussion as a possible option/solution for the OP....the idea of adding an elbow with a longer hose and routing it under the arm was already on the table and did not need to be obfuscated by your concerns/experience about sharing the primary 2nd stage via "primary donate", especially since the hose routing/elbow recommendation was not made with a recommendation to consider primary donate.

The pros and cons of primary donate have been well discussed and seem to recirculate as a topic often enough. Primary donate will not fix the OP's issue but if you want to discuss it with the OP as another step in that gear configuration you should...just not as part of this discussion thread.

There was no intent of harm or offense in my response to your post and the response was not specifically directed at you as I did not want your comments to be the impetus for the discussion to drift to one about primary donate and such.

If the above explanation does not satisfy your concerns and you would like to discuss further, let's do so in DM.

Cheers,

-Z

 

[tursiops]

Primary donate will not fix the OP's issue

Not sure I agree. Primary donate requires a longer-than-usual hose to the primary 2nd stage, and this is nearly always accommodated by routing the hose under the arm, which nearly always necessitates the 90 deg elbow at the primary, all of which together completely solves the OP's problem. So the primary donate system is the key...

 

[Zef]

Not sure I agree. Primary donate requires a longer-than-usual hose to the primary 2nd stage, and this is nearly always accommodated by routing the hose under the arm, which nearly always necessitates the 90 deg elbow at the primary, all of which together completely solves the OP's problem. So the primary donate system is the key...

Primary donate entails not only a change in gear configuration but also a shift in paridigm from how one is typicaly trained in recreational SCUBA courses. It often entails a change in how the octo is worn, deployed, and to whom it is deployed. It is often accompanied by philosophical/logical reasoning for the shift in paridigm away from what one would consider the "standard recreational setup".

Shifting to a slightly longer hose and routing the primary 2nd stage under the right arm and placing an elbow between the 2nd stage and its hose doesn't entail a paridigm shift about ones gear configuration nor does it need to entail a change to the octo.

While switching to the "streamlined" primary donate setup would incorporate the longer hose, routing change, and elbow, the employment of the longer hose, routing change, and elbow does not require one to adopt primary donate to benefit from the reduction in pulling on the 2nd stage the setup offers.

-Z