Regulator Service

[Chet]

As metioned on the buying gear thread, I had a great diving season and met a lot of people that use a fair number of LDS metioned on this board.
The one complant from some of them or what I noticed was most of the LDS in this area do not know how to service a regulator. " Hey my LDS just tunned my reg.... oh I have a hose that is split" "Do you like my new reg".... free flow as soon it is in the water. " hey do you think my reg breathes funny?...it breathes like sh....t"(it was a apeks atx200) These were just a few.
My question is does anyone know how to service a regulator in the GTA or where ever?
Be Safe
Chet

P.S. If there is a local dive store or person that does know then that is worth the drive. Or good air, eh PUFFER

 

[pufferfish]

Chet,

Welcome back and glad to hear you had a good summer. Your question is an excellent one and one that we have grappled with for the last year here in the GTA although I don't think the problem is only endemic to the GTA.

Just a few examples. My reg was serviced by one of the manufacturer reps (the guy who teaches the others how to service) a few weeks back and the second it hit the water it started to leak sufficient air I had to call the dive and the day. The guy had set the second stage too light and didn't bother to check which is just plain bad especially as I drove three hours to have it serviced. Another friend had his reg serviced here in GTA and on his first dive at sixty feet the mouthpiece fell off the reg. The tech forgot to put a tie back on! I rented some gear for a friend from another shop and he noticed he was getting heavier and heavier on a dive. Came up and found the o-ring on the inflator hose on the left shoulder was missing and the BC was filling up with water. We were on an island and had to search high and low for a piece of flat rubber and fashion our own o-ring as no dive stores around. Lots of other stories such that it has come to the point where unless I can't check the gear out in a pool post service then I won't plan anything too adventurous until I make sure the gear is functioning properly.

So where is the problem? Again if one looks under the hood it ain't pretty. Go back to a thread by DMI who raises the issue of the quality of training a service technician recieves. I think Kevin Ripley mentioned in the same thread that a car mechanic must do far more training and keep this training up to date whereas a scuba gear technician can get away with doing no training. In fact I know a shop around here where someone is being 'trained' by someone else to become the tech,...GIGA,...garbage in garbage out. If one is not assessed by an external independent body then you do not know where you stand as to the quality and extent of your knowledge. Kind of like that child centred learning fad in the eighties where the kid was only expected to exceed his own achievement bar in the classroom.

For the more technically inclined one can purchase Vance Harlow's "Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair", an excellent book which if one wanted to learn to repair their own regs they could do so from this book. Kind of like the Haynes or Chilton's manual for scuba regulators. Vance is on this board daily as 'Oxyhacker' and last I saw him over on the reg forum explaining the difference between different Aqualung regs. All I can say is the book is excellent and worth every penny. I never have the intention of servicing my own regs but after reading the book it sure helps to find out which techs know their mettle and which don't. A few basic technical questions derived from the book can separate the wheat from the chafe.

Maybe Kevin R, a technician on the board from Ottawa, can tell us whether one needs to have any certification in Ontario to work on regs. I know in the hospital enviromment the guy working on your ventilator in the ICU does have recognized training but I don't know in the scuba industry. I have seen lots of guys doing VIPs with no official course just what he learned from the last guy. PSI and others offer courses but like in any endeavor if one doesn't keep up to date and recertify then you are back to square one or just about. As someone here mentioned previously the industry sponsored reg courses just teach one 'how to throw parts at the regulator'. Can't remember who said that but good point.

So you are right in that trying to find a decent reg technician is like trying to find a good mechanic,... tough and when you do find one you are willing to drive a long way to get service from that person. Most recently a good friend has been going up to CC in Newmarket to assess the service up there.

In my experience once one learns the reg lingo and the schematics from Vance's book and then starts asking questions it is not too difficult to find a good technician. They are out there but you have to put a bit of effort into finding one.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The actual factory tech schools are pretty minimal and can involve eveerybody bringing a reg to work on while the instructors covers it once, hands you the tech manuals and sends you home after a 1 or 2 day course. Pretty sad - you learnt he basic techniques but not the many nuances that a good tech brings to the work bench.

Ideally the newbie tech goes home and gets to apprentice under someone who knows his business and after a coupe of years will be really good on a variety of regs. Often though the newbie tech goes home and fakes it.

The advice above to learn some of the basics and the lingo and use it to detemrine interview for a good tech is very good. If the tech does not know more than you go some where else.

Also, if the tech is not a diver, go some where else. If the tech has never worked on your model of reg, go somewhere else. If the tech was hired to work at te shop last Tuesday, go somewhere else.

Not all of it is the tech fault though either. They know and service best what comes in the door the most an may not be razor sharp on other models. I know a couple of very good techs and they will admit that I know more about the regs I use and self service than they do as I have more experience with those specific models and have more experience in getting them to peak performance in the water. I even occasionally get consulted when they are servicing one for a picky customer or have an odd problem with a reg that I am familiar with. They also sell me parts and let me copy the relevant pages of the tech manuals, so it is a good deal all the way around.

I think if the tech claims to know everything about everything, it may be a good indication that you may also want to consider going some where else. And if you live some where where there is no where else to go, it is well worth your time and effort to learn to service your own regs.

If however you find a tech that will let you look over his shoulder and who will explain what does what in your reg and why he does what he does, don't go any where else even if he sucks as a tech as you will still learn a lot from him and he will still be open minded enough to improve.

 

[amobeus]

Hello

This has always been a touchy subject, so to keep on the good side of the board and with out causing hell to break out, you can ping me and I'll tell you of an excellent service person in Toronto.

Amobeus

 

[seahunter]

This is a great topic - timely and badly in need of being addressed. I don't want to drag out old arguments puffer, but this topic is much more serious than the 'bad air' subject in my opinion.

1. As has been hinted, factory tech courses are inadequate. They teach only about the regs that the specific factory sells, are devoid of theory and are usually, as said, designed to show the repair tech how to change parts.
That may not be so bad actually since few repairmen really know what they are doing anyway. At least replacing the parts gives a better chance of a properly servicd reg.
2. Too many repairmen are 'trained' by the previous repairman and have no real credentials at all.
3. Very few current dive store owners much less their employees have a grasp of regulator theory. They don't know how it works,
Proof of that is the number of times I've witnessed a 'repair' of a reg by increasing the intermediate pressure (IP) so it breathes easier. Wrong!! It feels like it breathes easier but actually requires MORE effort to open and may lead to over
exertion at depth and a disaster.
4. I have personally witnessed a store employee service a reg while I was talking to him by checking it's operation on a tank and then spraying the hoses with silicon spray to make them look new. $40 please!
5. Contary to popular belief, if you can properly service one regulator you CANNOT necessarily service them all. How many times have you seen a dive store turn away a regulator for service? There is no store in Ontario that is authorized, trained or experienced to properly service all brands yet they do it all the time.
6. When you pick up your car at the dealership, the service advisor goes over each step to explain and ensure you know what was done and then you get a written copy. Only one store in Ontario does that to my knowledge.
7. Very few stores return the old parts for your inspection when they are replaced. It should be standard practice.

These are just a few of my observations over many years and even for me who has seen lot of weird stuff, they're scary.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Great point on the parts, they should be returned to you in the bags the new parts came in. If they don't find another shop, or at least ask to see them.

In truth the average piston second stage (with the exception of the SP Mk20/25 with those ill designed plastic bushings) can go 3-4 years without a rebuild. I suspect a lot of shops get by on an annual service by just looking at the sintered iron filter, checking the IP for repsonse and for any pressure creep, top off any silicone filled environmental kits and call it good, reserving any real work for the second stage only.

 

[Dive Source]

Dear Chet,

At the risk of looking like we are soliciting business Dive Source has been an APEKS dealer for 6 years and service probably 150 APEKS regs a year at the shop and stock all the parts. ( Not bragging but we are the largest APEKS dealer in Ontario - feel free to call Aqualung Canada to check as they told us this just last month - Ok maybe that was bragging but it is true and were proud of it.)

The Apeks regs are great and while some feel they are not overly complicated, we have developed some knowledge of their peculiarities over the years and would be happy to help you or anyone else for that matter with service. We won't however be posting particulars on DIY as I believe reg service should be done by a qualified shop who has the latest parts, tools, service manuals and service bulletins.

Seahunter is right on target with his comments on reg service and who is qualified.

I don't know if he was talking about our service procedure when he said

"The service advisor goes over each step to explain and ensure you know what was done and then you get a written copy"

but that certainly sounds like what we have been doing here for quite some time.

Not all shops can service all regs and we regularily send people with Dacor, Scuba Pro and Genesis regs to Innerspace In Pickering as they have the parts, tools and training needed to service them and I respect Roman's experiance in this area. I have also turned people away with regs that were better placed in a museum than in their mouth.

As far as what our shop is currently authorized to service - we have had our present staff succesfuilly graduate from clinics by TUSA, SHERWOOD, OCEANIC, SPARE AIR, US DIVERS, DACOR, ZEAGLE, APEKS, Cressi-SUB,OCEAN REEF, OMS and POSIEDON. (Whew - I think that's all of them )

My educational background is mechanical engineering and reg design and service is something that intrigues me thoroughly so anytime a clinic comes along count me in. I also realize that tolerances and service standards are something that require diligence and training to maintain which any good LDS will certainly do.

That's all I have to add for now and I hope it wasn't a commercial as it wasn't meant to be one - just an FYI.

I will close with this:

We like to call regulators what they are " Life Support Equipment" .

If all people ( including technicians) would take this to heart they would better understand what this equipments ultimate task is while you are underwater and treat it with the respect it deserves.

 

[pufferfish]

Just curious Dive Source is US Divers the same as Aqualung? Thanks for the info as good reg service is a real problem in the GTA.

 

[Chet]

Thanks for the reply dive source, but is was not my apeks 200. Also I noticed you service USD, but on your web site you do not sell the product, so how do you get parts? If I remember from what a shop owner from London, ON. said to me this summer "If the store is not an authorized dealer then your warrenty is void if they service it"
This goes back to my question that needs discussion -" according to the manufacturer only authorized outlets(stores, institutions) can do warrenty work, so some guy in his basement or apartment who services your regulator has just voided your complete protection against product problems. This also holds true for stores that are not authorized to service your regulator. I use to know of one individual who knows how to service all major regulators, too bad he is not in this neck of the woods anymore. I would recommend to all the stores to snatch him up.
Seahunters place of fun is an authorized Sherwood dealer, to name one line. So they can get the parts and can do warrenty work. I am not saying anything about their ability to service a regulator properly(they might be the best in the industry or not, I do not know, I did not meet many people from that store this summer, from what I have heard they do not promote the type of dives I was doing this summer). My point is I would take a sherwood regulator to them before an unauthorized place.
Air is important people, but not as important as good regulator service. Maybe look for a flow bench to start.
Who are the authorized dealers for the varoius dive lines in the GTA and around.
be safe
Chet

 

[Dive Source]

Hi Chet,

Feel free to call me Brian and I must say you are quite observent my good man!

Yes we are a USD dealer and authorized to repair them as well as the other lines I mentioned.

We have been an Aqualung dealer since Apeks was bought by them in 1999 ( Aqualung distributes Seaquest, USD, and Apeks as well as several accesories) and we recently expanded our relationship with them to carry the full US Divers product line as well, rather than just some of it.

Thanks to your keen observation Chet, I just finished updating the front page of our website which now reads:

"NEWS Flash - Dive Source pleased to announce that we have expanded our affilliation with Aqualung/APEKS and now carry the complete line of US Divers products in our store and will be featuring more of them here soon."

Thanks - Brian