Regulator Failure - Galapagos

[DiveProKoko]

sorry but i could not disagree more.

when we rent equipment from a dive operation it is 100% their responsibility to ensure the equipment is maintained properly and is properly certified for use.

Fair enough, and I agree. My point is that ultimately the diver is the one that will "deal" with the situation if they don't at least dive with reputable shops and do what they can to make sure the equipment they are diving is up to par. That will be easy in some places, more difficult in others, and I don't know if anything could have been done to prevent the incident I described. But I like this analogy....you have the green light at a crosswalk. You start walking, but you don't look both ways and get hit by a car. Of course you are "in the right" and the driver is 100% at fault, but did you do everything you could to prevent being hit by the car? Does it matter who is "right" (other than litigation) if you're the one who has to endure the long recovery from your injuries, etc.? Yes, it may be hard to know what's in a tank (or not in a tank, like a dip tube), but all the more reason to learn about gear and be able to make that determination.. Also, the guy's training saved his life because he knew what to do underwater. I just wanted to mention this as a cautionary tale to others to make sure the gear they're diving is the best it can be, and for instructors to take the time to make sure to teach equipment care, etc. in their classes. It's more important than you might think! Happy diving!

 

[DiveProKoko]

All the cylinders we saw and used were aluminum. When an aluminum cylinder get enough water in it a pasty slurry can form. Look at the picture posted above, that is very much what I would expect. The OP's description of "tank debris" is a bit too general for me to come to any conclusion. Though as I posted I hope they took photos.

Our equipment tech took photos (I think), although I haven't seen them. I'll find out tonight when I go into the shop. And yes, they were diving AL80s...one thing is for sure....It scared him silly!

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

sorry but i could not disagree more.

when we rent equipment from a dive operation it is 100% their responsibility to ensure the equipment is maintained properly and is properly certified for use. if that gear were to fail, and it is proven they were negligent in the maintenance and care, they would absolutely be liable if that country allows someone to sue them.

if i rent a car, it is not my responsibility to ensure the lugs on the wheels are tight, the oil type and level is right, and the engine is running properly.

i do agree we should not blindly accept rental gear without at least giving it a good once over and testing it though. but thats about it. most recreational divers would not even know what to look for.

If I rent an airplane, I damn sure am going to pre-flight it! That's my responsibility as the PIC. True, the owning FBO or dive shop has a responsibility to keep stuff up to par, but they're not the ones betting their life on it. Make sure the wings and struts aren't loose (or corroded - that killed a friend), that the control surfaces move freely (and in the coordinated manner they're supposed to), check the oil level. Dip the wing tanks to make sure the amount of fuel you expect to be there is. Check the contents of the fuel tank and ensure there's no water or debris. Check the wheels and tires and brakes on visual walkaround. The pilot/diver is the last and best check and bears ultimate responsibility... At least for the obvious stuff. Not saying dig through all the maintenance logs to ensure all the ADs have been complied with. Maybe I ask to see the evidence of the last annual and/or 100 hour. It's easy to check a rental dive tank for current hydro, current visual inspection (hopefully from a reputable inspector - and in a high-use operation like an active dive shop that is NOT an annual VIP. That should be at least a quarter-yearly inspection), that the valve turns freely and cuts off like it's supposed to. That there's an o-ring present if it's a yoke valve and it's in good shape, that it's reasonably clean and free of external corrosion or damage. To just put all of that on the owner and sling it on and jump in because maintenance is somebody else's responsibility is negligence in and of itself.

They did teach to check the O2 contents of your own nitrox tank before every dive and not just rely on the provider because it's his job, right?

 

[rick00001967]

If I rent an airplane, I damn sure am going to pre-flight it! That's my responsibility as the PIC. True, the owning FBO or dive shop has a responsibility to keep stuff up to par, but they're not the ones betting their life on it. Make sure the wings and struts aren't loose (or corroded - that killed a friend), that the control surfaces move freely (and in the coordinated manner they're supposed to), check the oil level. Dip the wing tanks to make sure the amount of fuel you expect to be there is. Check the contents of the fuel tank and ensure there's no water or debris. Check the wheels and tires and brakes on visual walkaround. The pilot/diver is the last and best check and bears ultimate responsibility... At least for the obvious stuff. Not saying dig through all the maintenance logs to ensure all the ADs have been complied with. Maybe I ask to see the evidence of the last annual and/or 100 hour. It's easy to check a rental dive tank for current hydro, current visual inspection (hopefully from a reputable inspector - and in a high-use operation like an active dive shop that is NOT an annual VIP. That should be at least a quarter-yearly inspection), that the valve turns freely and cuts off like it's supposed to. That there's an o-ring present if it's a yoke valve and it's in good shape, that it's reasonably clean and free of external corrosion or damage. To just put all of that on the owner and sling it on and jump in because maintenance is somebody else's responsibility is negligence in and of itself.

They did teach to check the O2 contents of your own nitrox tank before every dive and not just rely on the provider because it's his job, right?

perhaps you should read the last sentence of my comment. we actually agree for the most part.

but in this particular case it was apparently the internal condition of the cylinder that was the problem. so to suggest that could possibly be anyones fault other than the dive operator would be pretty ridiculous.

using your example, i totally agree that doing all the pref light checks you were trained to do is obviously the responsibility of the pilot. but if you blow the engine during take off because the owner of the aircraft has not done any regular engine work for the last two years, is that your fault? i guess it doesn't matter cuz you'd be dead?

this is no different than a diver. they should do their pre dive checks just like they were taught. they should even do a more thorough examination of the gear if they are not familiar with it.

but there is no way an average recreational diver could know the internal condition of a cylinder. no way to know the past maintenance. no way to know the internal condition of the regs either, or their past maintenance. etc etc. the only ones who know for sure are the people doing that maintenance.

when we rent gear we assume (possibly to our detriment) that the shop follows standard accepted practices for maintaining gear and providing safe, clean gas.

to your other example of nitrox.....i would absolutely analize the gas so i know the O2 content. but do you know the CO content? if they give you poisoned gas, who's fault is that? again, i guess it may not matter cuz you may be dead.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

if i rent a car, it is not my responsibility to ensure the lugs on the wheels are tight, the oil type and level is right, and the engine is running properly.

It wouldn't hurt to take a stroll around the vehicle to check tires, damage which might be blamed on you if not reported. And to see if blinkers, head lights, tail lights work. Any motor vehicle infringement would be paid by you.

Scuba rust and how to prevent it from happening to you: thoroughly examine hire equipment prior to diving. A BCD or wing should be fully inflated and left to sit before inspecting leaks, dump valves, and the inflator is working correctly. Check regulators are functioning properly before leaving the dive store, home or after they have been serviced. Your judgement is the deciding factor in whether to dive safely.

Impressive CVs don’t resolve problems, excellent communicators do.

 

[rick00001967]

It wouldn't hurt to take a stroll around the vehicle to check tires, damage which might be blamed on you if not reported. And to see if blinkers, head lights, tail lights work. Any motor vehicle infringement would be paid by you.

Scuba rust and how to prevent it from happening to you: thoroughly examine hire equipment prior to diving. A BCD or wing should be fully inflated and left to sit before inspecting leaks, dump valves, and the inflator is working correctly. Check regulators are functioning properly before leaving the dive store, home or after they have been serviced. Your judgement is the deciding factor in whether to dive safely.

Impressive CVs don’t resolve problems, excellent communicators do.

again......pls read the last line of my comment. i agree.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

All the cylinders we saw and used were aluminum. When an aluminum cylinder get enough water in it a pasty slurry can form. Look at the picture posted above, that is very much what I would expect. The OP's description of "tank debris" is a bit too general for me to come to any conclusion. Though as I posted I hope they took photos.

Scared Silly

That indeed is scary. To have that much water in a tank means it was open in the sea water with zero pressure. To me, that also means that the tank‘s integrity is indeed compromised, and that this tank is in need of not only a visual inspection, but also a full hydrostatic test to ensure it is still functional. If that were the case, I would never again use that facility.

SeaRat

 

[BigGixx]

Man, I'm just glade the individual is still here with us. If it was me god, and my wife, only knows what I would've done!

 

[drk5036]

Scuba rust and how to prevent it from happening to you: thoroughly examine hire equipment prior to diving. A BCD or wing should be fully inflated and left to sit before inspecting leaks, dump valves, and the inflator is working correctly. Check regulators are functioning properly before leaving the dive store, home or after they have been serviced. Your judgement is the deciding factor in whether to dive safely.

Do you know the diver didn’t do these things? Maybe they did. Because nothing of what you said would have prevented their OOA emergency.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

Do you know the diver didn’t do these things? Maybe they did. Because nothing of what you said would have prevented their OOA emergency.

I have heard of divers swallowing pieces of rubber inside the hose of their regulator, but the filter on the Yoke or DIN would prevent anything entering from the tank. Novice divers tend to exaggerate the seriousness of an actual incident.