Reg setups: a Philosophy Question

[H2Andy]

Now counselor, this won't last cross...

oh, i know you disagree with that view, and he's certainly welcome to disagree with it too

in my experience, which is all i have to go by, the seven-foot hose makes air sharing while maintaing trim and bouyancy and doing a slow and controlled asent to the surface, holding various safety stops on the way up, very, very very easy

it would be a pain to do with a short hose

can it be done?

again, of course

but why make things harder than they have to be, especially during a stresssful emergency?

 

[munitor]

wow ... well, certainly a significant number, but not the huge danger some people seem to think it is

True, but some people died because they were low on air and did a panic ascent.

'Unknown' was the single most common initiating cause for death (20%), followed by OOA (13%), 'rough seas' (10%), 'natural disease' (9%), 'entrapment' (9%), 'equipment problems' (8%), and 'buoyancy' (7%), etc, etc.

If the 'Unknown' is split up proportionately into the other categories, they all go up by a factor of 1.2, e.g. OOA becomes 16%. If you figure a some of the entrapment deaths could have resolved with more air, the figure could easily be in the 20% range. Time is a great tool to have on your side for problem solving, and extra air = time.

 

[halocline]

Just buy a dozen or so SpairAir units, each is an independent air source. Strap them around your waist as if they were grenades.

Sorry, that was uncalled for.

While you're at it, might as well strap on some grenades too, to guard that priceless air supply!

 

[charlesml3]

actually, no one said less than 7 feet is useless. you're making that up.

Darnit! You caught me making something up in a post!

From Jarhed:

A 5-7ft primary hose is useless.

Whoops....

whereas having a second stage separate from your BC hose will eliminate this problem

OK, just so I understand everything that's being posted here:

-The AIRII is not desirable because a hose failure would take out my BC inflation and my spare 2nd stage. This argument is just silly. I could always go to manual inflation of the BC. A failure of the hose or on a "real" octopus would leave me in exactly the same spot. Power inflators are nice but they are not a requirement. Besides, in an OOA situation you should be heading up and therefore purging air. On top of all that, a failure of the octupus AND an OOA situation with my buddy means we're buddy breathing my primary. No big deal.

-A 7' hose makes sharing air easier. OK. Is "easier" all that important? When we do OOA drills I take my AIRII and hand my primary to my buddy. Then each of us has a grip on the other's BC and we start our ascent. Again, no big deal. At that point, we're essentially "one" diver. I fail to see how this is a pain.

-Charles

 

[munitor]

Quantitative risk data:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/RESEARCH/crr_pdf/1997/CRR97140.pdf

Failure rates for equipment are listed in a table. Data comes from 8.75 million dives in the early 90's by the BSAC. If you want to see just how reliable regulators are, its in there! One caveat - no K valves, just DIN, so o-ring extrusion or failure is undoubtedly higher for K valve/yoke setup.

 

[H2Andy]

Darnit! You caught me making something up in a post!

From Jarhed:

A 5-7ft primary hose is useless.

Whoops....

do read the post in its entirety. he is saying that a long hose is useless when setting up to dive solo.

quite the opposite of what you said he said, which was that anything less than a seven foot hose is usless in an OOA.

yes, you did make something up in a post, probably because you didn't read closely or carefuly enough before responding.

this is what he said in its entirity:

If your setting up for solo diving, in my opinion, an octo is not useful, unless you are less than fully confident in your primary 2nd stage. A 5-7ft primary hose is useless. I lean towards doubles or a pony for a redundant system for me. If you dive with a buddy and expect each other to provide redundancies, then the extra 2nd stage becomes a nice option.

Take care,
John

whoops...

 

[Humble older aquaman]

Quantitative risk data:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/RESEARCH/crr_pdf/1997/CRR97140.pdf

Failure rates for equipment are listed in a table. Data comes from 8.75 million dives in the early 90's by the BSAC. If you want to see just how reliable regulators are, its in there! One caveat - no K valves, just DIN, so o-ring extrusion or failure is undoubtedly higher for K valve/yoke setup.

Looking forward to reading more of it, but at first glance, it appears diving is in FACT quite safe!

Hoa!

 

[H2Andy]

yeah ... our informal figures show 1 in 10,000 active divers will die from diving in any one giving year, with roughly 200 diver deaths per year

(from the LA County figures, which are US only)

 

[Gil57usa]

When I Dive Doubles I have my primary on a long hose and secondary bungeed around my neck. Sometimes I will carry a stage bottle, depending on the Dive.

When I Dive my single steel 98, it has a "H" valve on it, with the same hose setup as noted above.

With an aluminum 80 I have a 19 ft. pony strapped to the main tank. Primary long hose and secondary from the pony bungeed.

 

[H2Andy]

The AIRII is not desirable because a hose failure would take out my BC inflation and my spare 2nd stage. This argument is just silly. I could always go to manual inflation of the BC. A failure of the hose or on a "real" octopus would leave me in exactly the same spot. Power inflators are nice but they are not a requirement. Besides, in an OOA situation you should be heading up and therefore purging air. On top of all that, a failure of the octupus AND an OOA situation with my buddy means we're buddy breathing my primary. No big deal.

except that now you are buddy breathing off ONE second stage AND managing your BC inflation orally

lots of task-loading to add to a situation

if i can avoid doing that, i will. call me silly, what do i know?

with a second stage separate from my BC inflator hose, if either the second stage or the inflator hose fails, i still have the other, and that is less task loading. i'll either end up buddy breathing with one second stage and easily managing my bouyancy with the inflator button, or each of us can have our own second stage and i can manage the BC orally

the end result is less task-loading and less stress, of which you don't want any more during an emergency

-A 7' hose makes sharing air easier. OK. Is "easier" all that important? When we do OOA drills I take my AIRII and hand my primary to my buddy. Then each of us has a grip on the other's BC and we start our ascent. Again, no big deal. At that point, we're essentially "one" diver. I fail to see how this is a pain.

during an emergency, "easier" can make the difference between life and death.

have you ever tried an OOA with a seven-foot hose?

how do you know it's not easier?