Reg setups: a Philosophy Question

[King_of_All_Tyrants]

Thanks all. Lots of good advice here.

I think the following quotes sum up the problem nicely:

Keep in mind when making your decision that you will probably be required to have an octo of some sort on your annual week long tropics trips, especially if you do any liveaboards.

If you are going to dive NJ,MD,DE,NC, many boat operators require a pony or doubles to dive.

This is a much debated topic on SB and as the OP noted the arguements are very geographic centric.

I'm still mulling.........

 

[RJP]

Thanks all. Lots of good advice here.

I'm still mulling.........

I'm a "belt AND suspenders" kinda guy.

- primary on 7' hose
- alternate on necklace
- 40cf sling bottle with it's own reg

From 100' I can get me, my buddy, and another diver to the surface including deep stop and safety stop.

 

[Daryl Morse]

I'm a "belt AND suspenders" kinda guy.

- primary on 7' hose
- alternate on necklace
- 40cf sling bottle with it's own reg

From 100' I can get me, my buddy, and another diver to the surface including deep stop and safety stop.

This my favoured configuration (except for the suspenders).

 

[highlandfarmwv]

No ne here seems to like the alternate air source, but I like the idea of having a short tubing--for me and I give my primary to someone OOA. Also have a pony with its own reg.

 

[jeckyll]

Just get some doubles and voila. Redundancy there you go.

Otherwise, sling a 40. Keep the 7ft hose and the bungeed secondary and you're prepared for whatever. On very shallow dives, leave the 40 off if you feel like it. On deeper singles dives take the pony. Flexibility is yours without sacrificing anything.

 

[FoSheZZie23]

The whole NJ wreck way doesnt make to much sence to me, to have a pony reg but no octo off your 1st stage. I personally will never dive with longer than a 30" hose unless im doing hardcore cave dives.

My personal set up:

Steve G's all in one bomb diggity way of setting up a reg:
1st stage with a 26" hose connecting the 2nd stage. Octo with a 30" hose tucked into one of the bungies on my OMS bc (the hose is held very close to my bc, but when i reach back i can grab my octo if need be) and I dive a pony bottle with the 2nd stage on a bungie around my neck.

Philosophy: If I run out of air, i stick my pony in my mouth.
If my buddy runs out of air, i take my main 2nd stage reg (that i KNOW is breathing right) out of my mouth and stick it in his/ hers. Then put my pony in my mouth. If the situation is correctable i take mine back accordingly, if he/she has a totaly out of air situation then i take out my octo and give it to him because of the longer hose and take back my main 2nd stage.

the NJ wreck way said there is minimal situations where you would need your octo and a pony reg, i would think if you need any back up you would want to have both. What if it is a deeper dive and my 19cu pony might be cutting it close, why not beable to both breath off the 100cu i have on my back and work our way safely back to shore/ boat if there is enough air do the saftey stop.

or if the rare chance something bad happens and we are both in deco it will give us both more time to do as long of deco stop as we can.

I dive with a pony every single dive up here in the PNW and i dont depend on my buddy for anything.

The reason i dont like a long hose (4-7ft) is because if my buddy needs my reg to live i want him no more than feet away from me. I am going to be holding onto him making sure he has that reg in his mouth. I dont want him 5 feet away out of arms reach if something happens. If he has no air then im the one who needs to control our accent and stops. Just more re-assuring in a stressful out of air situation. I want to be looking right in his eyes so he knows im taking care of him.

 

[fldiver1]

Well, since I dive an FFMmost of the time, I carry a backup 2nd stage on my main rig. I too like to be close enough to look the buddy in the eyes if there is a problem. But One thing I'll say is that I use an AQUALUNG LPO on this setup so it's small, out of the way, and if another diver needs it the octo is right side up when they stick it in thier mouth. With every other octo I have seen/used the other diver has to loop the hose in an s shape and then they have to hold the 2nd stage in thier mouth with a had because of the hose pull/push. The AQUALUNG is built "upside down?" so when you hand it off to a buddy it's right side up for them without struggling with a hose. Very quick and easy. It may not be the best breather in the world but it works, every time, without a doubt.

 

[munitor]

Interesting. I'm currently in the process of doing a fault tree analysis for various configurations to determine if there is any significant difference in risk. Considering mechanical reliability as well as human factors.

 

[Nemrod]

I am not entering into the philosophy question about regulator hose length arrangements but I like munitur' fault tree idea--please do that but where will you get non antedotal data?

Pony bottles, when used, serve the octapus function and redundant air/gas source. This allows the octapus second stage to be removed from the primary rig (K valve--single first stage) thus removing a significant failure point--the octapus is a failure point. It can have various LP leaks, free flows etc, removing it eliminates these risks by 1/2. However, using a double regulator set up ( as on doubles) or a H/Y valve with isolation capabilty if you insist on carrying three second stages along.

If you use a single tank with a H/Y valve then you obviously need to be able to quickly shut the malfunctioning regulator/blown O-ring etc down preserving your back gas/air or otherwise you might as well be stuck with a free flowing/blown octapus and single first stage on a K valve--why bother to shut it down, breath it till it is gone and then switch to the pony.

Such things can get complicated and there really is no one single best answer for every circumstance.

I personally have seen a diver who had a large single with H valve with two full regs and full octapus on each with two computers and two consoles and a large pony with full regulator and octapus and full size SPG and he had an AIRII and a SparAir on his belt. He also had multiple lights including a can light. I am not making this up--he was in Alexander Spring, 30 feet deep, no cave, put that in your fault tree--holy cow

Fault tree--a USD Mistral which has a single stage pressure reduction--one O ring and a lever and a single pressure seat and used on a steel LP 72 is quite possibly the most reliable diving machine ever made or used in public circles. Cousteu team used these often because of their high reliability---one way to eliminate failure is by eliminating things that can fail--having multiple failure prone devices does not increase safety and possibly reduces safety. I can see this, that is my philosophy--SIMPLE FIRST. N

 

[Walter]

They all work and they all work quite well IF the divers in question are prepared to use them. The long hose is essential in narrow penetrations. In most cases with no overhead, the diver is OOA because they are essentially an accident waiting to happen. Long hose or not, keep them close, hold their BC, look them in the eye until you are at the surface and at the boat/shore.

It really doesn't matter which reg you donate, both work quite well. The OOA diver almost never (despite popular belief) grabs for the regulator in your mouth. They almost alway accept the regulator you give them. I've brought up lots of OOA divers. One reached for my octo, one (a cave instructor) reached for the reg in my mouth, all the others have accepted the one I handed to them.

BTW, with option # 1, you can also donate your primary. It's actually quite common.