reg setup for pony bottle?

[Nemrod]

"don't know how taking your secondary off would seem like a good idea to anyone."

I do, your "secondary" is not redundant. It is an octapus for air sharing. The octapus offers very little redundancy, it's primary and actually it's only purpose is to supply an OOA diver. The pony does offer full redundancy. It is common practice in many circles not to carry an octapus when utilizing a pony. The pony is fully redundant and can supply air to either yourself in case of a failure or to a buddy in case of an OOA situation or failure of their equipment. While removing the octapus from your main tank is not a big deal- many--many divers who use ponys rig for a just that--a pony rig where the pony is sized sufficiently to represent approx 25 to 30 % of the main gas supply and therefore is totally sufficient on it's own to return sport divers (non overhead) to the surface. It is far better than an octapus which offers no real redundancy. N

 

[Meister481]

I would suggest adding a 40" hose to your pony reg, makes it more comfy to use. Keep the octo for when you go on vacation.

 

[jeckyll]

"don't know how taking your secondary off would seem like a good idea to anyone."

I do, your "secondary" is not redundant. It is an octapus for air sharing. The octapus offers very little redundancy, it's primary and actually it's only purpose is to supply an OOA diver. The pony does offer full redundancy. It is common practice in many circles not to carry an octapus when utilizing a pony. The pony is fully redundant and can supply air to either yourself in case of a failure or to a buddy in case of an OOA situation or failure of their equipment. While removing the octapus from your main tank is not a big deal- many--many divers who use ponys rig for a just that--a pony rig where the pony is sized sufficiently to represent approx 25 to 30 % of the main gas supply and therefore is totally sufficient on it's own to return sport divers (non overhead) to the surface. It is far better than an octapus which offers no real redundancy. N

Given that the poster is familiar with his setup and seems uncomfortable with switching, why should he?

The only 'downside' to having a 'standard' setup for his primary tank with a pony would be the additional cost of a reg.

I know your comfort level with having a single reg on your main reg and buddy breathing is probably quite high, but advising someone to take the secondary off their main tank is a bad idea IMO. If an OOO diver grabs the reg out of their mouth is that really the time to fiddle with the pony? Or the time to try and hand off the pony to a stressing diver?

I know the point can be made either way, but I'd rather have the diver grab the reg from me and know that I can just switch to my backup. Then get control of the situation and decide if using the pony is appropriate. IMO, both divers should always have enough air to ascend safely on the donators main tank if they are properly managing their air.

Just my $0.02

 

[Nemrod]

You don't hand off the pony, it is not a Spare Air, one would as suggested have a 40 inch hose on that pony bottle and could if required bungee at the neck with a break away bungee or it is bungeed on the tank. There is no more "fiddling" with the pony regulator than would be the case with most clipped off , tucked away, left D ring, waist D ring, whatever type octapus rig is utilized. The pony regulator is immediantly accesible, at least the way I rig it, far more so that the "typical" rigs I see on an octapus.

If you want to keep the octapus, by all means do so, it hurts nothing other than adding additional hoses, drag, weight, complexity and confusion. How confusion, the stressed OOA diver has three regulators to choose from, the one in your mouth, the one clipped in a BC jacket pocket, the one on the pony. Just as any configuration, your buddy and you should brief each other on what to do in a bad situation.

"I know the point can be made either way, but I'd rather have the diver grab the reg from me and know that I can just switch to my backup. Then get control of the situation and decide if using the pony is appropriate. IMO, both divers should always have enough air to ascend safely on the donators main tank if they are properly managing their air."


An octapus is not back up, I keep hearing this and this is simply not the case, it backs up nothing, it is not redundant or independent. as to the "main tank comment that sounds good but running out of air due to bad managment is not the only OOA circumstance, equipment failure is equally likely. Assuming, just for sake of discussion, the divers are on singles, 80 cf aluminums, the standard tank in 98% of all diving are you teling me that having an additional slung 20/30 cf on a pony is bad managment? Anyway you look at it, I have 1/3 of my main supply in reserve. Couple that with conservative use of the "main" tank, rule of thirds etc. the dive team or diver is in a better position with the pony. The pony is not to be included in the dive plan, it is emergency use only. The pony diver has options the guy with an octapus only does not have, he has 20 to 30 or more cf on tap you don't have and a fully independent system you don't have. The pony serves as the octapus, it is just a different approach and results in a simpler set up--if your going with the pony. Just a different look at things. N

 

[jeckyll]

Nemrod: 1) If some panicked diver grabs the reg out of my mouth, my secondary is my backup. Strike backup and just go with 'secondary', it's semantics either way (for interests sake: Backup: 1 a : one that serves as a substitute or support. From m-w.com). Nowhere did I say anything about getting more air by using it or of independence or anything else.

2) I was really trying to stay away from this, but my bungeed secondary probably has very little drag. I can definitely live with it.

3) I'm not arguing against proper air management, nor have I said anywhere that counting the pony in my management, but you assume that the poster knows about thirds. Based on what? PADI doesn't actually teach gas management or Rock bottoms.

4) While I have not had it happen to me, I have hear (over an over) that a diver that has run out of air, will most likely go for the reg in your mouth. Having an extra reg shouldn't be confusing. Then again, the OP didn't mention if they were planning to mount the extra bottle to their tank or sling it.

the standard tank in 98% of all diving are you teling me that having an additional slung 20/30 cf on a pony is bad managment?

Where did you get that from? I actually went back and read my post, nowhere did I say that, or anything close to it.

BTW, I have a 40 sitting here that I'm going to sling. I have no plans for modifying my single tank setup. I may not always take it along and see no reason to start messing with my gear and reconfiguring it between dives.

Bjorn

 

[blhseawa]

I cann't speak for other's, but here is how I'm setup for rec deep (100 + sfw).

My primary rig is a Aqua Lung SEA 1st Stage, SPG, BCD, Dry Suit, Micra 2nd stage (pri), SE 2nd Stage (octo) all off of a XS Scuba LP 121. I say keep the octo. Great for buddy/group diving, safety, etc. OMS back plate, bladder, harness, standard weight belt.

My pony, Luxfer AL19 with qucik draw braket is off the back of the strap of my primary bottle. Attached to the pony is a Aqua Lung Conshelf 21 1st stage, XS Scuba pony bottle SPG right on the 1st stage, and a Conself 21 2nd stage, clipped off on my right shoulder with octo holder.

The rig works great and maintains my balance in the water.

For deco dives, I just over to my AL40, and it connects to the same mount used for the AL19.

As they to each his/her own.

My $0.02 keep the octo.

 

[GeorgeC]

I agree. Keep your octo on your primary 1st stage.

What would happen if you had to hand your pony off to another diver who was low/out of air.... then you'd be diving w/o a backup 2nd stage octo. You'd be screwed.

If my buddy runs out of air and “took” my pony regulator the dive is aborted and both of us would head for the surface and make the safety stop. I would not hand off the pony and continue the dive like nothing happened.

Lets assume I have three regulators, the primary, octo and a pony reg.
Lets assume my buddy runs out of air and takes my pony reg.
Lets assume I run out of air breathing my primary.
How does my octopus help me?

When I dive with a pony configuration everyone around me is also diving a pony configuration especially my buddy. Do we really need 6 regulators between the both of us? I think four would do just fine my primary, my pony, my buddies primary and his pony.

 

[Nemrod]

"When I dive with a pony configuration everyone around me is also diving a pony configuration especially my buddy. Do we really need 6 regulators between the both of us? I think four would do just fine my primary, my pony, my buddies primary and his pony."

Thank you, exactly what I am wondering, how many regulators does one need, at some point the odds of a free flow or equipment failure is magnified by having to much equipment.

The thing is people get stuck on what they learned in "scuba class" and never really think about how what they are doing now does or does not apply to the very basic rig they started out on. It is OK to try new things/new ways as long as you think it through logically. N

 

[Bill51]

Thank you, exactly what I am wondering, how many regulators does one need, at some point the odds of a free flow or equipment failure is magnified by having to much equipment.

Bingo! Beware the point where redundancy adds more failure points than it protects.

 

[Packhorse]

When diving with a pony why not replace your octi with a air2/SS1?