redundant air at less than 30'?

[idocsteve]

That's simply not the case. You argued incessantly on the Speigel Grove accident thread with those including myself who advocate for the use of a larger pony cylinder. You indicated the Spare Air cylinder was sufficient for the task of diving in general and the subject dive of the thread. I cannot now refrence your posts as the moderator temporarily closed the thread to remove off-point and unhelpfull information, most of which was yours. They reopened the thread soon therafter then you started up again then they closed the thread for good....

"You posted this and you posted that but I can't find it now..blah blah blah blah"

 

[ianr33]

After all your chatter on the merits of the Spare Air product the past few months you now declare ownership of a 19cu ft pony? You are indeed a provocateur....

Is a provocateur the same as a Troll?

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

....So do people still recommend redundant air if you're scrupoulously maintaining a 30' limit, in an area like that? Under what conditions, at 30', would that be a better choice than a CESA?

The other thing I think is that if I have a buddy, and I needed them suddenly, I'm not necessarily likely to be so on top of them if I'm shallow at 30' or less, and if I had an OOA issue, I'd just go up (but the only OOA I can imagine is equipment malfunction -- not noticing my gas supply ain't happening)....

Hi David,

You've gotten answers from DCBC, awap and idocsteve, but one more couldn't hurt

I think you need to step back and consider:

1. The environment you dive in (what is the possibility of entanglement, freeflows, getting a little lost, etc.), and the difficulty of the dive;

2. The depth you plan to dive to (can you safely CESA from max depth, will you approach NDL's on the dive, etc.);

3. Your own abilities, including physical and dive-skill / experience.

Every diver is different in how they are going to answer the basic (an not all-inclusive) list above. Some divers can probably safely dive without redundancy right to the edge of recreational limits (130 feet or so).

One thing to consider regarding CESA: How deep were you trained to do it? How much have you practiced it? Most current divers will answer <30' in OW class, and never again afterwards. If that is the case for you, then maybe 30' is a reasonable limit, beyond which a pony is a good idea. The risk with deeper CESA's is probably not drowning or a lung over-expansion injury, but taking a DCS hit because you've surfaced much faster than 60' per minute in order to avoid drowning. A pony would allow you to make a controlled ascent from depth, a CESA will (for most folks) need to be a faster ascent from depth.

Back to your original question: You need to decide this for yourself. But many folks are probably fine at a max depth of 30' if they are in good physical condition, are well-within NDL's (which limiting the dive to 30' will ensure), and stay calm during the CESA and control their ascent rate.

Me: I'm comfortable solo to about 60' max in the environment I dive in without a pony. I was trained to CESA from 60' when I took basic OW. I've practiced it (not terribly recently, but within the last year) from about 40', without difficulty.

But I do typically limit my solo dives to <40' just to give myself a safety margin.

Best wishes.

 

[redacted]

Is a provocateur the same as a Troll?

Not when you google it. :jb:

 

[Thalassamania]

close enough, it is (after all) a matter of intent.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Personally, I think that anyone who "feels better" wearing a pony bottle on an open water dive in 10 feet of water should probably be diving no deeper.

I would have absolutely no problem not wearing a pony bottle in 30 feet. However, if I dive in areas with the potential for heavy boat traffic, then I will take a pony for dives less than 60 feet.

 

[kanonfodr]

I carry my pony solo always, for more reasons than just redundancy.

Let's face it, Oahu is about as dangerous as an aquarium compared to other places divers go, but its always that one time when you go out all cocky and stuff goes sideways. 'Carrie' reminds me that I'm only human and should take precautions.

Peace,
Greg

 

[Bob DBF]

Yes David, kelp does really reach out and grab you unprovoked and then laughs at your immediate panic. It is however depressed when you wait and the countersurge disentangles and you move on.

Yet again LeadTurn beat me to the punch, but I'll settle with him later.

You are a solo diver so it's your call. Get to know the kelp intimately and it won't be a problem. I've been diving it for 30+ years w/o a pony bottle.

Bob
-----------------------
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE DUCT TAPE.

 

[TSandM]

I don't think kelp is likely to keep you from the surface, but it can sure make moving ON the surface very difficult. It's so easy to carry a redundant gas source that I can't think of a good reason not to do it, especially if you are diving under what can be a heavy kelp canopy. It's so much nicer to submerge and swim UNDER the kelp than to crawl in it.

 

[PvtStash]

I did ALOT of solo diving last year... the vast majority of which was < 30' ..., my dive site is about as safe as it gets w/o being in a pool but I still wear every piece of redundant gear I'm "supposed to" as it helps ease the anxieties of those who categorically disallow soloing.

Its PC. Its the same reason I'll be getting the SDI solo cert this year... not because I feel I'll learn anything I dont already know/plan for, but to avoid frustrating confrontations with those who cant who cant get their heads around the idea of mitigated risk.