Recreational Sidemount ...

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Mikko ... it's my nature, and my usual approach, to talk about alternative approaches to what I teach. The intent isn't to flood the student with information, so much as to make them aware that there are alternatives available, and that each of them comes with reasons why some people would choose to do it that way. A lot of those are dependent on someone's preference, or what they're used to doing ... others work better in certain environments than in others. It's always a consideration how much time and effort one should put into such a discussion ... and when you're teaching through a shop, you have to consider the interests of the business. For example, since I'll be teaching through a shop that markets certain equipment lines, and that promotes GUE training, how much effort would I want to put into talking about how UTD approaches sidemount diving?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
My nature and usual approach as well. I am just trying to make a point how it would be easier for students to go from one instructor to another without having to relearn skills they already possess just slightly differently. I have been in charge of a dive shop too in the past so I understand business values.

The main problem for me is that I've seen many even famous instructors market their way as the only way and that they don't recognize previously learned stuff for many students.

- Mikko Laakkonen -

I love diving and teaching others to dive.
 
Hi Bob,

Here is a synopsis of the skills required in the PADI OW Sidemount class (after a classroom session covering fit, configuration, hose routing, procedures, etc.):
Confined Water
Shallow Entry, Don Cylinders while standing
Buoyancy Check, Descent, Read SPGS
Make Reg Switches, Swim w/ Flutter & Frog Kick
Reg Recovery, Hover 1 Minute, 50 ft. OOG Swim
Valve Drill
3-minute Safety Stop (Hover)
Deep Water Exit, Removing Cylinders in Water
Helicopter Turn & Back Kick
Disconnect One Cylinder at Back, Swim 60 ft. & Reconnect
Exit Water, Deep Water Entry wearing Cylinders

Dive 1: (20-60 ft.)
Entry, Buoyancy Check
Flutter & Frog Kick, Reg Recovery
Valve Drill, Safety Stop, Tired Diver Tow 80 ft., Exit

Dive 2: (20-60 ft.)
Entry, 50 ft. OOG Swim, Hover 1 minute, Valve Drill
Disconnect One Cylinder at Back, Swim 60 ft. & Reconnect
Safety Stop, Exit

Dive 3: (20-100 ft.)
Entry, 50 ft. OOG Swim, Hover 1 minute
Safety Stop, Exit

I was wondering why this syllabus includes how to disconnect and reconnect tanks whilst diving. Besides looking super cool while "superman"ing tanks, the only real reason I can think of is to go through very small restrictions which seems to be beyond the scope of recreational diving.

Also, I was wondering if diver trim and tank trim are discussed in the recreational sidemount courses. The reason why I asked is because I searched for "PADI Sidemount" videos on Youtube and was shocked to see the lack of basic buoyancy and trim in some of the top videos. With proper diver and tank trim skills, I would doubt that most divers would need to even superman tanks for certain restrictions assuming the conditions were appropriate.
 
Those of us who also dive backmount (in caves) often put the long hose on the right tank and the short hose on the left. Then its consistent with hogarthian backmounted doubles hoses. The long hoses also route across the chest the same way and the short hose goes behind the neck before entering from the right side without necessarily needing an elbow fitting (although I personally have one, non-swivel).

I don't think there's anything wrong with your routing, I just don't see the benefits. The (only slight) benefit of long right/short left is consistency with backmounted doubles and their hose patterns.

I think SM instructors whether OW, recreational or otherwise need to be cave divers honestly, otherwise just about anything "could" make sense from a pure open water perspective. If some of their students go on to more advanced diving they'll be forced to abandon some of their open water practices when then could have learned a cave friendly configuration and skills from the get-go. Un-learning bad habits is never good. So I would put SM instruction in the same category as something like cavern. The instructor needs to be at least cave trained (although not necessarily a cave instructor) to impart good configuration, form and habits.

I've heard of valves rolling off in SM when passing restrictions. Wouldn't the right tank be the one prone to a roll of in a knobs out config?
 
I've heard of valves rolling off in SM when passing restrictions. Wouldn't the right tank be the one prone to a roll of in a knobs out config?

I have never had a valve roll off in SM, mine are up behind my armpits and the regs are down. I only have a long hose at all because it seems like a good idea to be able to donate. Many SM people dive 2 shorter hoses since they don't think a SM buddy has any way to go OOA at all. Some dive 2 longer hoses, aka its a total free-for-all. I feel like the benefits of routing across my chest with some slack and being able to do temp shares without full deployment (say at a gas switch) outweigh the roll-off issue. And having my necklace reg come from the left I like. Cause restowing the stuffed long hose (at all) is an epic PITA with gloves on. Its not too bad with bare hands but can still be pretty messy and clumsy.

This is definitely one of those things that an OW instructor could completely mix up and confuse students about. A cave or cavern type instructor is at least going to have some understanding of the variety of options students might consider and think about.

BTW probably 75% of my SM dives are solo anyway so my thoughts are probably poo
 
I was wondering why this syllabus includes how to disconnect and reconnect tanks whilst diving. Besides looking super cool while "superman"ing tanks, the only real reason I can think of is to go through very small restrictions which seems to be beyond the scope of recreational diving.

Also, I was wondering if diver trim and tank trim are discussed in the recreational sidemount courses. The reason why I asked is because I searched for "PADI Sidemount" videos on Youtube and was shocked to see the lack of basic buoyancy and trim in some of the top videos. With proper diver and tank trim skills, I would doubt that most divers would need to even superman tanks for certain restrictions assuming the conditions were appropriate.

The Standard is not to Superman, but to disconnect 1 tank at the rear connection. The logic is that you will want to be fluent at this so you can disconnect 1 tank as you approach the boat so you can hand it up before climbing the ladder.

Diver and tank trim are not specifically addressed in the standards, but you can bet they are part of my classes. Honestly, many of the less experienced Instructors are still struggling with these skills themselves.

theskull
 
I was wondering why this syllabus includes how to disconnect and reconnect tanks whilst diving. Besides looking super cool while "superman"ing tanks, the only real reason I can think of is to go through very small restrictions which seems to be beyond the scope of recreational diving.

I'd list the following reasons;

1) Developing equipment familiarity and ingrained muscle memory; especially with the cylinder bolt-snaps. Many students initially struggle with the operation to attach/detach cylinders, even at the surface. This is more practice with the kit, developing 'feel' for manipulating the snaps and the cylinders.

2) It provides a simple option for the sidemount diver to neaten/stow their hoses on the cylinders.

3) It helps develop awareness of cylinder buoyancy characteristics.

4) It is an initial orientation into the full capabilities of the sidemount system. Consider this something of 'beginning with the end in mind''. It highlights equipment performance capacity. It doesn't "train" for restrictions.

5) It provides some option for recreational overhead divers (esp. wreck) to utilize the equipment to escape from an otherwise dangerous situation. I teach my recreational wreck-sidemount students to never pass restrictions, but to remain aware of exit options that sidemount would permit in an emergency.

.. I was wondering if diver trim and tank trim are discussed in the recreational sidemount courses.

Yes, they should be.

Here's one of my PADI sidemount students, from this year, on his first open-water descent (equipment workshop and pool session done the previous day):

padi-sidemount-diver.jpg


The reason why I asked is because I searched for "PADI Sidemount" videos on Youtube and was shocked to see the lack of basic buoyancy and trim in some of the top videos. With proper diver and tank trim skills, I would doubt that most divers would need to even superman tanks for certain restrictions assuming the conditions were appropriate.

There has been a quick growth in the popularity of sidemount diving. That causes, in turn, a quick growth in sidemount instructor population. So... given that high quality sidemount skills and instructional competency takes quite some time to develop.... you have a lot of new sidemount instructors who are not 'expert' with the equipment.

Hence... some really bad training outcomes...

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I have never had a valve roll off in SM, mine are up behind my armpits and the regs are down. I only have a long hose at all because it seems like a good idea to be able to donate. Many SM people dive 2 shorter hoses since they don't think a SM buddy has any way to go OOA at all. Some dive 2 longer hoses, aka its a total free-for-all. I feel like the benefits of routing across my chest with some slack and being able to do temp shares without full deployment (say at a gas switch) outweigh the roll-off issue. And having my necklace reg come from the left I like. Cause restowing the stuffed long hose (at all) is an epic PITA with gloves on. Its not too bad with bare hands but can still be pretty messy and clumsy.

This is definitely one of those things that an OW instructor could completely mix up and confuse students about. A cave or cavern type instructor is at least going to have some understanding of the variety of options students might consider and think about.

BTW probably 75% of my SM dives are solo anyway so my thoughts are probably poo

http://www.asainslie.com/documents/Rethinking_Bailout_and_Reserve_Gas.pdf

Interesting read and a 1st hand account of a valve rolling off. Seems Murphy-ish, but I guess its a real thing in some configs?
 
http://www.asainslie.com/documents/Rethinking_Bailout_and_Reserve_Gas.pdf

Interesting read and a 1st hand account of a valve rolling off. Seems Murphy-ish, but I guess its a real thing in some configs?

Well taking them off and 1 diver passing them through restrictions is in a slightly different category than 2 people sharing gas through a restriction and having the donation tank roll off. Its certainly possible for valves to roll on or off in the process of picking up and dropping stages (which are bungied on in SM) and while supermanning tanks. I have rolled many a stage valve on/off while taking them on and off in SM. Not very much but my valves are pretty loose.
 
Just to clarify, are some of you saying that long hose on the left is somehow not compatible from the cave perspective?

For the valves rolling, you would need to bang the tanks quite hard to get them accidentally rolled off. I have been taught that if there is something happening to top portion of the tank I should check the first stage and valve. Also another thing that might be benefit able to teach for beginner sm students from the get go. Not to be able to pass tiny restrictions but to create good muscle memory and beginning with the end in mind.

- Mikko Laakkonen -

I love diving and teaching others to dive.
 

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