Recovery diver dead, two others injured searching for body - North Carolina

[boulderjohn]

I guess these guys were diving with standard masks and regs.

Why are you guessing that? It is a legitimate question from someone who knows little about full face masks and has been trying to learn because of this discussion.

In my search, I found this post in this thread:

My buddy and I recently began using the Ocean Reef Neptune Space. It takes a little getting used to but works fine. We have the communications unit as we do a lot of solo diving and the ability to communicate with the boat is a nice bonus. The mask has a positive air flow and completely eliminates any fogging, no matter what the water /air temps are. After making the needed adjustments, you simply press the regulator portion lightly against your face to equalize. A few things you need to consider. In a case of regulator failure, out of air situation or switching over to a Deco gas you will need to remove the face mask, switch over to your octopus and don a spare mask. You definitely want to practice this in a pool as it may save your life. (Emphasis added)
​

I have learned that some full face mask setups have a of design (switch block) that allows them to switch breathing devices without removing the mask, but that is not the usual situation. The technical diving course materials I use talk about the challenge of making gas switches as something to consider when choosing whether or not to use a FFM for technical diving. Recent discussions about FFMs and technical diving on ScubaBoard have also talked a lot about how much faster you can go through air while using one.

So, just for argument, what if a diver did go OOA while using a FFM and carrying a pony bottle, and that setup did not have the kind of switch block necessary for a gas switch? Would not the diver have to remove the mask to get the pony bottle regulator into the mouth? Would that situation include the risk of a scenario very much like the one described here?

 

[uncfnp]

Paywall.

That's crazy. Opens right up for me. Try Googling "PSD self rescue" and look for the link to Sept 2012 Fire Engineering and see if it will open that way. I might be able to copy and paste that section but not sure the legality.

 

[uncfnp]

Why are you guessing that? It is a legitimate question from someone who knows little about full face masks and has been trying to learn because of this discussion.

In my search, I found this post in this thread:

My buddy and I recently began using the Ocean Reef Neptune Space. It takes a little getting used to but works fine. We have the communications unit as we do a lot of solo diving and the ability to communicate with the boat is a nice bonus. The mask has a positive air flow and completely eliminates any fogging, no matter what the water /air temps are. After making the needed adjustments, you simply press the regulator portion lightly against your face to equalize. A few things you need to consider. In a case of regulator failure, out of air situation or switching over to a Deco gas you will need to remove the face mask, switch over to your octopus and don a spare mask. You definitely want to practice this in a pool as it may save your life. (Emphasis added)
​

I have learned that some full face mask setups have a of design (switch block) that allows them to switch breathing devices without removing the mask, but that is not the usual situation. The technical diving course materials I use talk about the challenge of making gas switches as something to consider when choosing whether or not to use a FFM for technical diving. Recent discussions about FFMs and technical diving on ScubaBoard have also talked a lot about how much faster you can go through air while using one.

So, just for argument, what if a diver did go OOA while using a FFM and carrying a pony bottle, and that setup did not have the kind of switch block necessary for a gas switch? Would not the diver have to remove the mask to get the pony bottle regulator into the mouth? Would that situation include the risk of a scenario very much like the one described here?

Boulderjohn. If you can access that article I think you will find it interesting. Here is a relevant section by Andrea Zaferes...

"Next, to help prevent divers from bolting to the surface when they lose their masks or primary air source, you need to associate "out of air" with "access pony air" and associate "I want to surface now!" with "access pony air." To do the former, I recommend performing out-of-air drills every time the team runs training or drill sessions. These drills should give divers the experience of having their primary air turned off, forcing them to calmly switch to pony air. The desired learning outcome is that "out of air" is no longer an emergency; it becomes merely a "nuisance" as long as the diver has a pony bottle.

Next, institute the procedure that divers should ascend on their pony bottles at the end of every training session and perhaps even every operational dive. Removing their masks and performing that life-saving self-rescue skill of going to one's pony regulator at the end of each dive means that divers are practicing that critical self-rescue skill on every dive in addition to further strengthening their breathing-underwater-without-a-mask skill. Such training adds even greater comfort should a mask unexpectedly dislodge from the face in cold water and helps ensure that an out-of-air incident is merely an inconvenience and not an emergency.

If the water is too contaminated to remove a full face mask, then divers should be wearing a block and should switch to their pony air with the block prior to surfacing. Electronic communication hot microphones will not be damaged by removing a mask underwater, as is commonly believed. Air bubbles forced through the microphone membrane at depths greater than 20 feet could potentially damage the microphone. I have had divers remove their full face masks that were fitted with electronic communication systems underwater to switch to their pony air more than 1,000 times in the past 30 years with no ill effects to the communication systems."

 

[KevinNM]

That's crazy. Opens right up for me. Try Googling "PSD self rescue" and look for the link to Sept 2012 Fire Engineering and see if it will open that way. I might be able to copy and paste that section but not sure the legality.

That worked. Thanks.

 

[boulderjohn]

That worked. Thanks.

I found that simply going back to the site a second time opened it up for me. The first time, I got the paywall; the second time, I got in.

 

[tbzep]

Can you describe the process you would use if you ran out of air and had to switch to a pony while wearing one of those masks?

Pull the FFM off, stick the octo in my mouth, pull out the spare mask, put it on and clear it, surface normally.

 

[ReefGuy]

14 minutes at 82 feet to go OOG isn't a little physical work, that RMV is up there around hard hat guys crankin' on a half meter long wrench at the bottom of the North Sea. If these guys were working that hard then something was wrong from the get go.

The more details that come out, the more it seems like these guys weren't prepared for whatever was going on.

Spoken like someone whos never done an underwater recovery.

 

[boulderjohn]

Pull the FFM off, stick the octo in my mouth, pull out the spare mask, put it on and clear it, surface normally.

In other words, as opposed what people seemed to be thinking earlier in the thread, the process is far more complicated than it seems. Without the FFM, going from an empty tank to a pony is a very simple process of dropping a regulator out of the mouth and inserting a new one. People were wondering how a mask flood could have happened during that process. If it is a FFM, a mask flood is a required step in a procedure that goes well beyond what is done in a beginning dive class.

In addition, the article said that the diver was recalled to the surface by a monitor on the boat for an unnamed reason. We then learned that in normal procedures, the monitor keeps track of gas pressures for the divers. If so, the monitor might have noticed the rate at which the diver was going through air and recalled him because of the rapidly depleting gas supply.

 

[DandyDon]

n other words, as opposed what people seemed to be thinking earlier in the thread, the process is far more complicated than it seems. Without the FFM, doing from an empty tank to a pony is a very simple process of dropping a regulator out of the mouth and inserting a new one. People were wondering how a mask flood could have happened during that process. If it is a FFM, a mask flood is a required step in a procedure that goes well beyond what is done in a beginning dive class.

True, but the Recovery diver wearing such is responsible for practicing that drill. Don't you ever practice removing your mask and replacing it?

 

[boulderjohn]

True, but the Recovery diver wearing such is responsible for practicing that drill. Don't you ever practice removing your mask and replacing it?

Of course they should practice it, and they should be good at it. I am just pointing out that there was a common misunderstanding earlier in the thread that the diver failed to do a procedure that is easy for OW students in a beginning pool session. The fact that we have had two different knowledgeable sources talk about the importance of highly skilled divers practicing that skill regularly "as it may save your life" indicates that this is not a basic skill.