Recommendations wanted for BP/W

[theatis]

Hi everyone,

This is my first actual post even though i've been reading these forums (and learning a whole lot) quite diligently since this past summer, which was when i decided to certify OW. I've decided to buy my own gear now and so i would like some recommendations for a BP/W purchase which will happen within the next few weeks. Later on, i will ask for some recommendations on regs as well; my timeframe for that is in the next few months, say before May.

OK, so here's my situation. I'll be as thorough as possible, since i see that often people ask for advice without providing enough info for others to comment on.

Like i said, i did OW and plan to do AOW and Nitrox, probably around September, definitely not before the summer. I will be back home in Greece over the summer and will log as many dives as possible to have some experience before AOW and Nitrox. I don't anticipate to advance any further than that, at least in the foreseeable future, or to dive doubles or to buy a drysuit.

So, the rig that i want to put together is basically single-tank to be dived with wetsuit in temperate to warm waters. There are a few reasons why i decided to try a BP/W, please let me know if you think these are credible. My limited diving experience is all on jackets, during training, or with rentals or borrowed from friends. I have tried a few different ones from Aqualung, Cressi, even a friend's Seaquest Pro Unlimited. There were the same problems with all of them (the Seaquest was somewhat better but very expensive!).

I am 5'6", weigh 180-5 lbs and have a relatively athletic build (42" chest, 32" waist). The result is that i can barely get in smaller sized BCs whereas larger sizes fit my shoulder width but are way too large for my waist and torso length. All jacket BCs that i tried had the effect of either riding up on me (if too large) or crushing my chest when even partially inflated (if too small). Also, small BCs during OW cert constrained my arms so much that it was physically impossible to reach behind my neck and touch the 1st stage and tank valve. It seems that with a BP/W you can have the harness tight on a more muscular body (I'm trying really hard not to sound too full of myself, I'm really just stocky and short!) without restricting range of motion and, obviously, without the squeeze. Also, it seems that there is no issue with torso length. Is this correct?

Another reason is that as a graduate student with limited funds i would like to buy something that wil last me a very long time both in terms of durability and in terms of me not outgrowing the equipment. I plan to move back to Europe in a few years so I'd like to buy something that i can take care of in the long run. I'm not sure whether there will be issues with it being serviceable. I'm from an island, and the major brands are the usual suspects, SP, AL, Mares, Cressi, Oceanic. Most smaller/newer US brands like Zeagle or Atomic don't even have dealers there. Will a BP/W setup create a problem for me in the long run?

After careful research on this forum, i narrowed my choices to: 1) the full DSS rig, 2) the DR BP with Travel Wings from NESS, the Oxycheq Razor 30 rig, or the Golem 35 rig. I haven't read much about the Golem rig but i included it because it's very inexpensive. It seems that any of the above would serve my purpose well enough. Any comparisons among them? Any compelling reason to prefer one over others? Obviously, trying all of them out would be very difficult so i would appreciate any opinions.

Thanks in advance for any assistance. Sorry for the tremendously long post but i wanted to provide some detail and hopefully get some more informed recommendations.

 

[alexxred]

I think you are certainly heading in the right direction. A B/P and wing will offer you the adjustability you need and its a system that will work for singles and if you want to go with doubles all you would really need to change would be the wing.

Regarding the harness I'd lean towards the simple hog setup. They may not feel super comfortable out of the water (but they do once your in!) and can take some adjusting to get the fit right but once dialed they are simple and solid.

All the brands you have mentioned are exellent and for single tank diving a 30 or 35lb wing would be plenty Its really going to come down to personal choice. Maybe see if you can try a few out. You probably find that if you get in contact with the dealers they are often happy to help.

Cheers and good luck with choosing your new toys.

 

[cummings66]

I have the DSS setup with the 30 lb wing and find it to be perfectly suitable for my usage. It seems to be a very well constructed item so it should last many years, the only thing I've ever heard about it is one guy had a buckle break on the band. Those aren't expensive.

All the brands you've mentioned have good reports, well, I haven't heard much on the Golem 35 rig but BP/W's have few problems. I know that Tobin and Patrick both read these forums so that's a good sign for both their products, i.e. they're around to listen to divers and both dive as well.

 

[PerroneFord]

I don't anticipate to advance any further than that, at least in the foreseeable future, or to dive doubles or to buy a drysuit.

Ok, These are two important variables to consider. However, if you DO decide to use a drysuit (and I would recommend it) then the BP/W will serve you quite well.

So, the rig that i want to put together is basically single-tank to be dived with wetsuit in temperate to warm waters. There are a few reasons why i decided to try a BP/W, please let me know if you think these are credible.

Again, very important information.

I am 5'6", weigh 180-5 lbs and have a relatively athletic build (42" chest, 32" waist). The result is that i can barely get in smaller sized BCs whereas larger sizes fit my shoulder width but are way too large for my waist and torso length. All jacket BCs that i tried had the effect of either riding up on me (if too large) or crushing my chest when even partially inflated (if too small). Also, small BCs during OW cert constrained my arms so much that it was physically impossible to reach behind my neck and touch the 1st stage and tank valve. It seems that with a BP/W you can have the harness tight on a more muscular body (I'm trying really hard not to sound too full of myself, I'm really just stocky and short!) without restricting range of motion and, obviously, without the squeeze. Also, it seems that there is no issue with torso length. Is this correct?

You are correct that your torso length, large chest and small waist will not matter whatsoever in the fit of your BP/W. You can put your mind at ease. There will be no restrictions and no squeeze.

Another reason is that as a graduate student with limited funds i would like to buy something that wil last me a very long time both in terms of durability and in terms of me not outgrowing the equipment. I plan to move back to Europe in a few years so I'd like to buy something that i can take care of in the long run. I'm not sure whether there will be issues with it being serviceable. I'm from an island, and the major brands are the usual suspects, SP, AL, Mares, Cressi, Oceanic. Most smaller/newer US brands like Zeagle or Atomic don't even have dealers there. Will a BP/W setup create a problem for me in the long run?

Well, since most of the major US brands don't sell BP/W systems, this won't affect you in the least living in Europe. The BP/W consists of 3 pieces. Actually 4 in your case. The plate. Which is a piece of steel. No warranty issue there! A length of 2" webbing which can be gotten cheaply anywhere in the world. A wing bladder which can be ordered from the UK, Germany, the US, Italy, etc. And a single tank adapter which I would recommend. The ONLY piece of this you need have any concern about is the wing bladder. With proper care they will last many years. Many are repairable. But you will have to replace it, or purchase more than one over time.

After careful research on this forum, i narrowed my choices to: 1) the full DSS rig, 2) the DR BP with Travel Wings from NESS, the Oxycheq Razor 30 rig, or the Golem 35 rig. I haven't read much about the Golem rig but i included it because it's very inexpensive. It seems that any of the above would serve my purpose well enough. Any comparisons among them? Any compelling reason to prefer one over others? Obviously, trying all of them out would be very difficult so i would appreciate any opinions.

In your shoes, I would recommend you purchase the basic Hogarthian setup. It's simple, requires no maintenance, and is fairly cheap. For various reasons, I would not recommend the DR Travel wings, and I would not recommend the Razor. Though Other Oxycheq products would be more suitable. The DSS product with the Hog harness is an excellent choice. The Golem is also an excellent choice and the owners are from eastern Europe and familiar with your logistics issues. Their wing is also the toughest I've seen, ever.


I'll share some of my thoughts here, and you can take them for what they are worth because even though I certified in '94, I was out of diving a while.

1. If you are going to dive in Europe, you will likely be diving with a steel tank. Probably a high pressure one. The single tank adaptor tends to hold the tank a bit more steady than other designs. You can also buy a weighted version to take some weight off your belt. Both of these are advantages.

2. The drysuit is excellent for longer dives. The larger tank will give you longer times under the water with more comfort. It will also allow you to dive in other places in Europe without worring about the water temperature.

3. The DSS plate has inserts to keep the webbing from chafing. This will make the webbing last longer. Although webbing is very cheap, it's a pain to have to rethread and readjust everything.

4. The Golem wing is the toughest I've seen. It's also very fairly priced.

5. I do not recommend the Razor, because it is a single RF Welded design. This is less tough, and harder to repair. Oxycheq makes other designs that are more robust and one of those might be more suitable. Check out their "limited" line which are very tough though a bit more expensive.

I look forward to your post about regulators

-Perrone

 

[theatis]

Thanks for the recommendations guys.

Perrone, you make some interesting points that i want to follow up on. I see your point on the Oxycheq Signature being more robust than the Razor and will consider it. I favored the Razor in terms of possibly making a small difference in streamlining, but long-term durability is indeed more important to me.

I'll try to learn more about the Golem especially since you say it's European-made which i didn't know.

While i see your point for the STA, one of the selling points for me for the DSS is the lack of an STA in terms of compactness, one less thing to pack when traveling etc. My sense from this forum is that DSS owners don't feel that they miss out by not using it. Anyone with a direct comparison between non-STA and STA equipped models? I guess from my list above, this would be DSS and Golem on the one hand (non-STA) and DR and Oxycheq on the other (STA).

Can you elaborate on the DR travel wings please? DR setups seem to be popular in general. Would another DR wing be more preferable? Again, anyone else with a comparison?

I have a few more questions to throw out later about tanks (that you already mentioned, i've only just begun thinking about that) and weight integration methods that i'm considering.

Thanks again.

 

[NJdiver85]

I use the Halcyon Pioneer with the integrated STA in tropical waters and I'm quite happy with it. Tank sits real close to my back. An important consideration for warm water diving is the type of tank you will be using and exposure protection. For example, I wear a 3ml shorty and primarily use an AL80. This allows me to get away with a SS BP as opposed to AL, and takes weight off my belt. I could add an STA to this and still be okay as far as weight. However, with my PST Steel 100 and no STA, I don't require any weight belt. It would be better for me to go with an AL BP and put 4 pounds of ditchable weight on my belt. As I don't have an AL BP, I usually opt for my full 3ml suit in these situations, which forces me to wear 4 pounds of ditchable weight.

 

[PerroneFord]

I'll see if I can address your issues here:

Perrone, you make some interesting points that i want to follow up on. I see your point on the Oxycheq Signature being more robust than the Razor and will consider it. I favored the Razor in terms of possibly making a small difference in streamlining, but long-term durability is indeed more important to me.

The Difference in the size wing you are looking at ~30# of lift, won't make all that much difference in terms of streamlining. If you were buying a wing for doubles, I'd say take it under consideration.

I'll try to learn more about the Golem especially since you say it's European-made which i didn't know.

I'm not saying they are MADE in Europe. I am saying the owners are European. Big difference. I don't know where the wings are made. Jakub may chime in tonight and offer more information. If you want a good European wing, try Agir. I've seen their products and they are excellent.

While i see your point for the STA, one of the selling points for me for the DSS is the lack of an STA in terms of compactness, one less thing to pack when traveling etc. My sense from this forum is that DSS owners don't feel that they miss out by not using it. Anyone with a direct comparison between non-STA and STA equipped models? I guess from my list above, this would be DSS and Golem on the one hand (non-STA) and DR and Oxycheq on the other (STA).

If it's compactness you are concerned with, you are talking a difference of 1/4" - 1.5" You couldn't tell the two apart on a diver's back. The only POSSIBLE difference you'd notice would be in a valve shut off. And to be honest, on a single tank, how often are you going to worry about that? I have a Halcyon Pioneer. It does not use an STA. I'd still rather have it. If you ever look at the non-STA wings, you'll notice that the two cam bands are rather close together. Too close for my tastes, but tolerable with my AL80. If you look at the cambands on an STA rig, you'll see they are wide apart. Giving more stability in the water, especially with heavier tanks. The STA is about 2 pounds for what it's worth. Dive Rite makes one out of plastic that weighs less than this.

Can you elaborate on the DR travel wings please? DR setups seem to be popular in general. Would another DR wing be more preferable? Again, anyone else with a comparison?

I live 90 minutes from Dive Rite. Many shops near me carry Dive Rite gear, and I purchase Dive Rite products. But I have seen VERY few Dive Rite single tank wings on anyone's back. Personally, I don't like their shape. Maybe that's personal bias. I don't know. But I'd buy a Halcyon, Golem, Oxycheq, or DSS wing before a DR if I was in the market for a single tank wing. Again, if we're talking doubles, then the conversation might be different.

I have a few more questions to throw out later about tanks (that you already mentioned, i've only just begun thinking about that) and weight integration methods that i'm considering.

What kind of wetsuit do you dive now, and how much weight do you wear? That will clear up some things.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

You can't go wrong with most of your options. I'd get the DSS (well, I DID get the DSS last week). I can't imagine any advantage an STA would offer over the DSS rig. It's very stable. Very compact for travel. You can take the wing off in about...10 seconds or so if you want to carry them seperately for travel. The box all my stuff came in was so small I thought I'd gotten the wrong order

I think the shape of the DSS wing is much nicer than the DR wings for singles. If you don't get DSS, I'd get Oxycheq, Halcyon...that Golem gear looks good but I haven't researched it much. The Hammerhead plates are a nicely priced option.

All in all, for singles, the DSS rig is just the way to go IMO. It works together well as a system and it's one of the only plates that really stands out from the crowd in terms of features. And it's reasonably priced. For a singles rig that works great as a system, you can't go wrong.

Have fun with your decision!

Gregg

 

[ProfessorAronnax]

If you want to check out a rock solid BP/W (or reg for that matter) look no further than ZEAGLE. Check out their BPs Here: ZEAGLE Backplates and Wings here:ZEAGLE Wings. Their BP/Ws are built with the same high quality standards as their BCs and Regulators. If your interested, The BP/W had a nice write up in November's Scuba Diving Magazine.

Just to let you know, The Rapid Diver Store is a Zeagle Dealer and my opinion biased. With that said, it's still the only gear I'll dive. Made in the U.S.A., Lifetime Guarantee.

Rap

 

[GreenDiverDown]

...

Geesh! I'm blowing the whistle on this one.

25 credibilty points lost for the inappropriate use of scubaboard for a blatant, unsolicited, self-promoting, advertisement.