Recommendations for AOW electives

[pt40fathoms]

I steer my students to 3 electives, and give the reasons when I talk to them. Here's the abbreviated format.

Peak Performance Buoyancy; in this we cover proper weight and trim of the diver, a must for anyone who wants to dive properly.

Search and Recovery; the basics of how to find and lift objects underwater.

Night; want to see what you missed during the day dive?

Try these three, you won't be disappointed.

 

[TheYellowSubmarine]

Ahem, i posted a website i had easy to hand, I'm sure if i looked a little harder i could find other posts of deaths resulting from computer failure (on none dir sites) ok this is a old link, but is on njscuba (a pretty anti-dir site)
(ok its on njscuba, and its got a bandwidth restrictor )
again the fact computers let you saw tooth and all manner of ill-advised things.

Anyways my main point is you shouldn't solely rely on a computer!!!!

As mentioned in so many places, COMPUTER CAN AND DO FAIL!
http://www.baue.org/library/bakerscomputers.html

Now don't get me wrong, i have absolutely no quarms of you diving the way you do, and i'm happy for you to continue this way, probably incredibly safely. What i do request though is not giving advice such as "If you only want to dive off tables, multilevel diver might be good. If you plan on using a computer, not much point." Simply put there is a point for learning to plan your dives!! I for one like to know a little behind the model that my computer is showing me and not to rely solely on blinded belief!

The link you posted regarding computers is almost completely about technical diving. I wouldn't recommend relying on computers for the type of diving when you have to know your deco ceiling, how long you have to stop, etc. If something went wrong with the computer you could be in serious trouble. But for no-deco recreational dives, if your computer fails, the worst that should happen is that you immediately slowly ascend, do your safety stop and get out of the water. I know a bit about the algorithm my computer runs too. I think everyone should have a good idea of how any piece of their equipment works. Fact is that unless you dive pretty square profiles, once most people try a computer, they're going to use it over the tables, so for an AOW elective I'd rather do something that I'll put to more use. You can always just buy a wheel and read the instructions, ask other divers, etc, but I think the other electives like wreck and night are best taught by an instructor.

 

[*Floater*]

About the multilevel diver. Here's what another dive shop in Puerto Galera, Asia Divers, has to say about the course:

A great way to either learn how to use the wheel or expand your knowledge of its use. ideal if you’re thinking about buying, or have just bought a dive computer. New and safe ways to extend your bottom time. Explore Escarceo, Ernies Point and other great sites here in Puerto Galera, ideal for multi level profiles. Great preparation for other locations such as Palau or the Sulu Sea.

I probably won't take that course though bacause the SSI dive tables have worked fine for my diving needs so far, and I'm not planning to get a dive computer any time soon.

 

[*Floater*]

UPDATE and QUESTION:

1) After talking to the instructor, I took wreck diving, fish id and drift diving as my electives. In hindsight, I would probably have taken night diving instead of the drift.

Overall, the amount of new knowledge I gained from the course was minimal, and I could have learned 95% of it by just reading the book, Adventures in Diving, and the doing some fun dives.

I suggest people here who decide to do the course just pick their electives based on what the best dives will be associated with those electives. Also, pick the night dive because those cost more than regular dives, so it's better to do it as part of the course.

The way I look it this now is that the course included 5 dives and cost $180 for me. Fun dives would have cost $17 ($25 for night). I would have done 5 dives anyway, so had I properly combined my course dives with dives I wanted to do anyway, I would have just paid approximately $90 extra for the AOW certification ($180 - $25 (night) - 4*$17 for regular dives). Unfortunately I was too eager to do the course, and therefore did some of the course dives in a strong current that therefore negated them as fun dives. Plus I skipped the night dive because I had done night dives already and therefore didn't think I'd learn anything new from it.

2) Question: I wanted to go to one site that was at about 45m, but the dive resort I was staying at would not take me because I did not have the deep diver specialty - they played the libaility issues card. Should I

a) Use another dive resort in the future, or

b) Pay for the deep diver specialty course (the dive resort I was using would charge $120 (EDIT: $160) for that, which includes 4 dives - so it's about $90 on top of the dives that I would do anyway - is that a reasonable price?), or

c) Should I just go on to the next course - rescue diver (?) or whatever comes after AOW. Would that certify me to dive down o 45m or below?

 

[dbulmer]

Floater,
Why did you want to go to 45m? I'll let the instructors and tech divers tell you why it might not be such a good idea.

 

[MEL-DC Diver]

UPDATE and QUESTION:

1) After talking to the instructor, I took wreck diving, fish id and drift diving as my electives. In hindsight, I would probably have taken night diving instead of the drift.

Overall, the amount of new knowledge I gained from the course was minimal, and I could have learned 95% of it by just reading the book, Adventures in Diving, and the doing some fun dives.

I suggest people here who decide to do the course just pick their electives based on what the best dives will be associated with those electives. Also, pick the night dive because those cost more than regular dives, so it's better to do it as part of the course.

The way I look it this now is that the course included 5 dives and cost $180 for me. Fun dives would have cost $17 ($25 for night). I would have done 5 dives anyway, so had I properly combined my course dives with dives I wanted to do anyway, I would have just paid approximately $90 extra for the AOW certification ($180 - $25 (night) - 4*$17 for regular dives). Unfortunately I was too eager to do the course, and therefore did some of the course dives in a strong current that therefore negated them as fun dives. Plus I skipped the night dive because I had done night dives already and therefore didn't think I'd learn anything new from it.

2) Question: I wanted to go to one site that was at about 45m, but the dive resort I was staying at would not take me because I did not have the deep diver specialty - they played the libaility issues card. Should I

a) Use another dive resort in the future, or

b) Pay for the deep diver specialty course (the dive resort I was using would charge $120 for that, which includes 4 dives - so it's about $90 on top of the dives that I would do anyway - is that a reasonable price?), or

c) Should I just go on to the next course - rescue diver (?) or whatever comes after AOW. Would that certify me to dive down o 45m or below?

Addressing C: The deep diver specialty takes you to 40m - that is the rec limit. Rescue diver won't get you there. In any event 45m constitutes a technical dive.

 

[*Floater*]

Floater,
Why did you want to go to 45m? I'll let the instructors and tech divers tell you why it might not be such a good idea.

I was diving in Puerto Galera, Philippines, and there's apparently a very good wreck at around 45m - the fishing boat. I was hoping to visit it and take some pics.

More generally, I want to be able to go down a little below 30m when diving if there happens to be a great site below that depth, though obviously I would draw the line somewhere, maybe around 50m, since I couldn't dive long enough at further depths.

Besides, I was told that the depth limit for PADI's AOW used to be 40m some years ago, but they revised it down to 30m, either to make more money, or because too many people experiencing nitrogen narcosis in their opinion.

 

[*Floater*]

Addressing C: The deep diver specialty takes you to 40m - that is the rec limit. Rescue diver won't get you there. In any event 45m constitutes a technical dive.

True, but I doubt they would mind the extra 5m at most dive resorts.

Since I haven't been trained to go below 30m I don't really know if that would involve something complicated, but my suspicion is that it would not be a big deal. At least I cannot see anything magical about the 18m limit for OW certicate vs. going down to 30m with the AOW certificate.

 

[dbulmer]

Ok- how would you plan your dive to 45m? What would be your bottom time - would you need deco?
How much gas would you need for the dive? Would you have enough gas to get you or your buddy to the surface safely? If your computer fails could you manage a safe ascent without it? How good is your reg? Is your bouyancy good enough such that you could hold your safety stop(s) - would you be able to see well at depth?


Since you most likely will be narced to some degree, can you be confident that you could handle 1 or more problems at depth? Could you rescue your buddy? Could you rescue yourself for that matter if you lose bouyancy control?

BTW these are some issues - instructors can think of many more scenarios. To do that sort of dive requires a lot more training and your fundamental diving skills need to be second nature.

Yes some people have dived to those depths and managed - others haven't and died.
All I am suggesting is that you need to seek an experienced instructor to get more informed on what it takes to do that sort of dive safely. I could do a 45 metre dive quite easily but I might not survive to tell the tale.

 

[MEL-DC Diver]

True, but I doubt they would mind the extra 5m at most dive resorts.

Since I haven't been trained to go below 30m I don't really know if that would involve something complicated, but my suspicion is that it would not be a big deal. At least I cannot see anything magical about the 18m limit for OW certicate vs. going down to 30m with the AOW certificate.

Dunno, I would think that most dive resorts would mind, at that depth. I'll grant you the 18-30m difference is not such a big deal, but you wouldn't catch me going to 45m w/ a single tank only. Short NDL, and nitrox really doesn't come into the equation... In any event, if you want to do it you can probably make it happen and you'll probably be just fine. Would I do it w/o good deep experience and air redundancy (hell, even a deco procedures course), nope.