RonFrank:
I was not aware that someone came along and stated that Ikelite does NOT use a preflash. I for one do not know. I do know that Ikelite states this on their website about iTTL.
So either Ikelite supports "real iTTL", or they are lying about what they support which I highly doubt.
There are a few cheap strobe alternatives. Sunpak, Sealife, I think most have been discussed.
Do those work as well as say the more expensive Ikelites or Inon's. IMO no. Slow recycle, narrow coverage, little support using various arms systems, and many other factors make them less desirable, but they are less expensive.
What the market will bare seems to be a LOT more than what you believe it should which says little about your understanding of economics. Do I like paying $1200 for a hunk of Plexiglas to house my D200? No. The housing costs $400 less than the camera which has more technology built into it than the Original Lunar Rocket. Do I understand WHY that hunk of plastic costs $1200, and my D200 costs only a few hundred more.. Yes, and it's not because Ike is the Bill Gates of the UW photo world.
I doubt Ikelite, or Inon, or anyone else gives a fig about less expensive strobe manufactures as long as they stick with low end digital alternatives. If Sunpak starts making a DS125 style strobe, I'm betting it will cost as much or close to the DS125. On thing about most of those low end digital alternatives is that they are NOT going to work with any camera that can not fire in internal strobe in a housing, like EVERY DLSR out there that I'm aware of.
So what I think others have been suggesting is that spending a few more bucks now, may save $$ in the long run. A DS51 will work with ANY camera. Many less expensive strobes have no way to attach to a hotshoe, they are slave only, and some will only do an optical slave that will need to be attached directly in front of the primary flash.
Service is another factor. Flood a Sunpak, and call B&H because you will NEVER see that flash work again without spending more in service then it's worth. Flood an Ikelite, and you have a reasonable chance of getting repaired, and maybe even at no charge. Ike's service is rather outstanding.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=162193&page=9
With respect to Alcina's suggestions I cleaned this up the other thread is locked up:
measures the amount of light coming through the lense”
The KEY question is HOW does the camera measure the amount of light?
With the TTL system of Film cameras the light is measured by a photo sensor that is pointed at the Film itself. This is the most accurate way of measuring the light striking the Film and REFLECTED to a SENSOR because the camera is receiving the light intensity data from the actual Film itself, REAL-TIME FEEDBACK. This is what the posters are putting down as “old technology” of the Film age because of comments like this:
“I guess inovation and improvement in technology is not worth the engineer's time if they choose not to implement it the same way as the old technology?”
Fast forward to the Digital age…Nikon, Canon and the rest of camera makers would LOVE to have used the TTL system (old technology) from their Film Cameras. The system works very well, simple design and is somewhat predictable. The only problem is the recording media, a CCD sensor in digital cameras (was film in film cameras) does NOT REFLECT the light hitting its surface the same way as it did for film! This is the “brickwall” I spoke about.
So it’s on to plan “B”, since they cannot measure the light hitting the recording media in REALTIME, another way but not as accurate, is to place the photo sensor in the viewfinder area. Not as accurate as the TTL sensor pointing at the recording media as with film because this "new high tech system" does not provide real-time measurements and the circuitry much more complicated, Nikon calls this iTTL.
Complicated… because now the system has to fire a PREFLASH to determine the amount of flash power to use, before firing a PRESET main flash power level!
With the sensor in the viewfinder a PREFLASH FROM the STROBE is fired at the subject, the light reflected off the subject makes its way back to the camera, Through The Lens of the camera, hitting the reflex mirror which is then bounced up towards the viewfinder where the light sensor is located waiting to sense the light intensity data.
The light intensity data is then feed into the camera’s electronics where it is processed and sends out a MAIN FLASH level command to a MATCHED…. NIKON DESIGN…Nikon SB-800 Flash head! This is why the Nikon DSLR and the Nikon SB-800 flash works well together.
We ASSUME that Nikon or Canon gave the details on the workings of their “proprietary” iTTL circuitry and software to the Aftermarket U/W strobe makers or even if they had access to the design, decide not to use it, because of this statement:
“If you think that Ike iTTL is somehow magic, I'd love to hear that explaination. I'm not sure if it uses preflash or not, but my guess, yes. Why would it not?”
I am in the camp of Nikon and Canon keeping their proprietary iTTL systems design, a secret from each other and everyone else, which now leaves the Aftermarket U/W strobe makers holding the BAG! Because without the design plans the strobe makers will have a difficult time in figuring out how much and how long a PREFLASH to fire and also have to redesign their strobes to communicate with Nikon or Canon’s power commands to the strobes. This could also leave the door wide open for Nikon or Canon to manufacture their line of U/W iTTL strobes in the future, like the Nikonos line (103 or 105) from Nikon.
Or the Aftermarket U/W strobe makers decide NOT to use the Nikon or Canon iTTL systems altogether because it is just too complicated a design and produce a “work around” or “band-aid” design. And that design is to BY-PASS the photo sensor located inside the camera and install their own remote external sensor in their “TTL controller or converter” which has to be purchased separately.
So now the task of the STROBE firing a PRE-FLASH is taken out of the picture completely! The AM U/W strobe makers are free use to their NON PRE-FLASH firing… NON-NIKON SB-800 strobe!
One little “minor” problem with NOT using the TTL or iTTL sensor INSIDE the camera and placing their own sensor OUTSIDE the camera’s lens is that the system is now:
NOT iThrough The Lens or Through The Lens!
Their system should be called Through The External Controller! I’ll explain the differences on my next post.
Their system is in fact an “Automatic” flash exposure system like my $50 Vivitar 285HV land strobe!
A very interesting write up from one of the AM U/W strobe makers:
“This Sea & Sea TTL Converter allows TTL exposure control when connected to Sea & Sea housings for Nikon digital SLR cameras with Sea & Sea YS strobes. The converter allows quick switching underwater between TTL mode and manual mode from outside the camera.
You can use the TTL correction dial after checking the results of a shot in the LCD monitor to adjust the amount of strobe light for the next shot. Because the converter comes with two separate strobe connectors, you can use advanced automatic TTL flash adjustment with two strobes. “
Does not say anything about firing a PRE-FLASH for iTTL but it uses the term “TTL” rather loosely! A Jr. lawyer can do a number on that one in court. And this statement:
“You can use the TTL correction dial after checking the results of a shot in the LCD monitor to adjust the amount of strobe light for the next shot.”
Checking the LCD monitor???? Isn’t this like shooting in MANUAL?????
So are you sure you are using iTTL or any type of TTL???
Addition: Call Ikelite yourself and ask them if any of their strobes are capable of firing a preflash. Note that in order for the iTTL to work the strobe itself has to OUTPUT or fire a series of preflashes, do not get this mixed up with a strobe being capable of syncing or triggering from a camera's internal flash...preflash.
