Rec or Tec?

[The Cosmicist]

...In September 2019, the Swiss researcher and dive instructor Jens Meissner (Lucerne University) published his estimation of 160,000 active technical divers (based on the number of advanced and technical certifications that would put them in the ‘technical’ category). That would mean that only 2.7% of all active divers are technical divers...

I think that's a flawed way of measuring it (albeit probably the only possible way):

-Technical diving is based on the type of diving you do... Deco, overhead ceiling of some type (distance or physical), etc.
-Just because someone has a technical certification doesn't mean they are actively doing technical dives. Likely, but not certain. Also, what is "advanced"? I technically have an "advanced" certification, but everyone here would laugh if I tried to say I'm in the same group as technical, or even truly advanced, divers. Anyways, guess I need to go read the article you linked to answer that question for myself. Not trusting the statistic here.

I disagree on CCR, I think a recreational photographer could benefit from a rebreather.

Agreed.

I am sure he could benefit from it. But being able to dive CCR, he would have the training and certification that would put him in the Tech zone, by the above definition. No?

You're essentially arguing that if a person takes a drysuit class (also used most often in tech diving, just like CCRs), that they should be put into the tech diving category. Tech diving is not about the gear you use, it's about the type of diving you do. I'm sure tech divers wouldn't use doubles, stages, etc. if they didn't have to! It simply allows them to safely complete technical dives. Being qualified to use a CCR does not make you a technical diver unless you also use it for technical dives and are qualified to do so. The definition is flawed.

Some cats that are gray are big. My cat is gray, therefore it is big. See what I mean?

I don't think so; these two links do not say a word of deco:

TDI Air Diluent CCR Diver Course - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

www.tdisdi.com

CCR Advanced EANx Diver

This Program is designed to train competent divers in the safer use and technology of CCR for dives requiring decompression. It is also especially useful t...

iantd.com

However, you should have a look at the standards to be sure...

Right. Learning to use CCR is just a more complicated version of learning to use valves and regs. It says nothing about the type of diving you do.


I think it's worth going back and thinking through what you're trying to say. Who cares if someone uses a Perdix as a new diver? They are safe, reliable, and user friendly. If someone doesn't read the manual, that's their fault and not the computer's doing. I read every manual for every piece of gear. Why? I want to master it so I have less task loading. If other people don't, it's their life...

There are two trends at work here. First, people are susceptible to being sold gear they don't need and/or won't use every function if they have it. This is ubiquitous and permanent in our society, not just in diving. Also, we are spoiled and want our gear to do everything amazingly, with no effort, right away. Second, there's a tendency to blame something else if a person doesn't handle gear well... Like blaming that inanimate object. If a person messes with GF without knowing what they're doing, that's their fault, not the computer's fault. Would you suggest child locks on computers where you have to call the manufacturer and give them your cert # to access GF? People should be allowed to use the computer as they see fit. And that's where reading the manual comes in............................................

 

[Wibble]

I dive recreationally, for fun.

I can't see the point of short NDL dives, so I dive deeper and longer than the PADI NDL Recreational Diving tables allow. A lot longer and a lot deeper. I also dive solo, with a rebreather, DPV and occasionally in overhead environments.

All of this is recreational diving, but in the sub-category of Technical Recreational Diving.

Part of the thrill of TecRec (yuck!) diving is the enjoyment of studying diving theory, using more complex equipment and practising skills, all in order to get to those rarely visited places and spend time enjoying them. Also interested in archaeology and the history of wrecks.

Learning is all part of the fun.

 

[formernuke]

You're essentially arguing that if a person takes a drysuit class (also used most often in tech diving, just like CCRs), that they should be put into the tech diving category

I have a drysuit cert, 2 drysuits and in fact rarely wear a wetsuit up here. Combined with my perdix I guess I'm a tech diver now.

To be serious to define tech gear is hard. For example I was talking to one of the shops up here about teaching with them. When I mentioned a BPW the owner said that's tech gear. To me a BPW is just a BC, a CCR is tech. At least 2 people here have disagreed with me there.

 

[Wibble]

It largely depends where you dive as to what you need to use.

Started diving in a holiday resort. All fine and dandy but doing it for 2 weeks a year really isn't enough.

Diving in the UK where I live is rather different from the warm, clear, benign conditions in the Mediterranean. What a shock my first UK dive was... 30m/100ft, dark, currents, on a wreck with lots of netting, poor visibility, cold water...

As a result diving in the UK tends to be far more challenging than in the Med. For that you need a lot more kit, not least a drysuit, but also redundancy, proper lighting, self-sufficiency, deeper, SMBs... All of which would be classified as out-and-out technical skills in the Med. It then becomes a small step to diving on the deeper wrecks 45m/150ft and then wanting to stay a while on the bottom, so needing to do some decompression diving. Again, something that's not particularly common in Mediterranean diving resorts.

And the addiction gets worse...

 

[The Cosmicist]

I have a drysuit cert, 2 drysuits and in fact rarely wear a wetsuit up here. Combined with my perdix I guess I'm a tech diver now.

To be serious to define tech gear is hard. For example I was talking to one of the shops up here about teaching with them. When I mentioned a BPW the owner said that's tech gear. To me a BPW is just a BC, a CCR is tech. At least 2 people here have disagreed with me there.

Well, that's my point. Gear shouldn't categorize a diver as technical or recreational. Rather, it's the diving you do. To me, calling a piece of gear "tech" is just advertising. It might conjure preconceived notions in our head, but all "tech gear" can be used in recreational diving. Although it might look funny...

 

[formernuke]

And the addiction gets worse...

With a corresponding drop in saving account/ rise in credit card statements.

UK sounds like here, dark and cold. Drysuits are very common here because of that reason, most serious NE divers use one.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Why are advanced trimix capable dive computers recommended to new divers?

Because the US dive computer market pricing is poorly stratified. If you a new recreational diver wants a nicer dive computer with all the features like AI, digital compass, and a color screen you basically have to spend $800-900. Why get a poorly thought out recreational computer that has poor customer service when for the same price you can get the well thought out Perdix AI for the same price?

Now in Europe you have other options like the Suunto D5, which sells for about 500 Euros, which technical computers at about twice that.

 

[Marie13]

With a corresponding drop in saving account/ rise in credit card statements.

UK sounds like here, dark and cold. Drysuits are very common here because of that reason, most serious NE divers use one.

Great Lakes, too, although we often have better visibility. Drysuits here.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Why are advanced trimix capable dive computers recommended to new divers?

Because the US dive computer market pricing is poorly stratified. If you a new recreational diver wants a nicer dive computer with all the features like AI, digital compass, and a color screen you basically have to spend $800-900. Why get a poorly thought out recreational computer that has poor customer service when for the same price you can get the well thought out Perdix AI for the same price?

If the Peregrine had AI, it would fill the niche. But then, as was pointed out in another thread at the time the Peregrine was released, a diver might as well just buy a Perdix.

 

[arthurng311]

It is simple for me, perdix is a computer which you would unlikely to outgrow in your lifetime of diving, in where i live, it retails for roughly 800USD, however if you sell it on the secondary market you are likely to recoup 600USD. So for an average diver i had always recommended the Perdix, if they end up being long term divers, the ergonomics and the extra functions would be appreciated by them. If they decide not to dive anymore, they can easily resell the perdix (high liquidity) at a good price which would recoup most of the cost of the computer. Nowadays, i recommend pergerine, my only gripe with that computer is I am lazy and hate the idea of charging my dive computer