Rec/jacket style bcd vs bp/w bcd for the IE?

[Ste Wart]

Hey instructors!

I was given some advice yesterday by another DM who said he heard that PADI would mark you down if you use a tech style bcd for the IE.

If he's still a DM, how would he know?

I have been diving a bp/w for the past 7 years (but i also Dived a jacket style for 7 years prior). The reasoning sounds valid (you want to look like the padi videos). I love my system/setup but considering using a loaner rig for the test.

Fixed

Dear god, why would you want to look like them

I did my I.E in a Zeagle Brigade, without hindrance.

Granted my system is a weight harness and not a belt so i know I would need to use a weight belt for the testing.

That's a good idea. While weight pockets and weight harnesses satisfy requirements, I think a weight belt demo is a good idea. However you don't need to have all the weight on your belt.

Thoughts? Anything else i need to consider changing for the IE?

I.E stands for IT'S EASY

Good luck

 

[RJP]

You don't want to mess up your fellow classmates and some of them might not be familiar with BP/W and how to get someone out of it (assuming no quick releases).

And then what, pray that they never have to ACTUALLY rescue someone diving a BP/W?

Sorry, they need to deal with it.

"Um, yeah... ordinarily I would rescue you. Really. But I only trained to rescue people diving in standard jacket-style BCDs. Shall I notify your next-of-kin?"

During the IDC, we had one person in a BP/W, and he was never selected to be the victim for gear removal. During the IE, if he was the victim, I would be the rescuer and cut him out of it. We purchased additonal webbing just in case. We also worked with the other candidates and shuffled the order so once again he was never the victim anyway.

Cui bono?

 

[Boingo]

......

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

How and why did gear choices and cert agencies get so political?
When a certification agency starts making gear rules about what's an industry standard and what's not, I say something stinks in the back room.

 

[Hawkwood]

How and why did gear choices and cert agencies get so political?
When a certification agency starts making gear rules about what's an industry standard and what's not, I say something stinks in the back room.

I am getting confused here. In this discussion, what agency is "making gear rules about what's an industry standard and what's not"? If you are thinking PADI, then its been pointed out that the OP's DM buddy is mistaken.

 

[RJP]

I am getting confused here. In this discussion, what agency is "making gear rules about what's an industry standard and what's not"? If you are thinking PADI, then its been pointed out that the OP's DM buddy is mistaken.

If a tree falls in the forest, and Jim LaPenta isn't there to hear it... is it still PADI's fault?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I am getting confused here. In this discussion, what agency is "making gear rules about what's an industry standard and what's not"? If you are thinking PADI, then its been pointed out that the OP's DM buddy is mistaken.

All I can do is go off my own experience.
I'm in the plate business to some degree. I have been all over the state into many dive shops and had many discussions with many instructors and shop owners. 99% of these shops were PADI shops.
I'm sure there is no official written PADI standard that says all classes throughout the PADI system are required to be performed in a modern jacket or back inflate BC that is manufactured by the top scuba gear manufacturers, and the smaller fringe companies and alternative gear configurations cannot be used. How and who would make this distinction?
My feeling and perspective is that shops and instructors are given enough leeway in the PADI rule book that they could use an alternative system if they wanted to as long as it fit the critical criteria like "there must be a BCD" (a wing is a BCD). A Hog style harness could be a sticking point if there is a requirment to have quick releases.

However, if shops and instructors are allowed to set their own set of requirements for gear within the PADI rules then to me these individual or reqional gear requirments do in fact become "official" within their own environment, if these decisions are supported by PADI.
I have been told by my LDS that there was no way they would even consider carrying BP/W systems because they would not teach students in them and/or endorse them, and that was shop policy. So that becomes a "standard" within that shop which is supported by PADI.

---------- Post added February 8th, 2014 at 01:27 PM ----------

If a tree falls in the forest, and Jim LaPenta isn't there to hear it... is it still PADI's fault?

Yes, everything is PADI's fault.

 

[maniago]

All I can do is go off my own experience.
I'm in the plate business to some degree. I have been all over the state into many dive shops and had many discussions with many instructors and shop owners. 99% of these shops were PADI shops.
I'm sure there is no official written PADI standard that says all classes throughout the PADI system are required to be performed in a modern jacket or back inflate BC that is manufactured by the top scuba gear manufacturers, and the smaller fringe companies and alternative gear configurations cannot be used. How and who would make this distinction?
My feeling and perspective is that shops and instructors are given enough leeway in the PADI rule book that they could use an alternative system if they wanted to as long as it fit the critical criteria like "there must be a BCD" (a wing is a BCD). A Hog style harness could be a sticking point if there is a requirment to have quick releases.

However, if shops and instructors are allowed to set their own set of requirements for gear within the PADI rules then to me these individual or reqional gear requirments do in fact become "official" within their own environment, if these decisions are supported by PADI.
I have been told by my LDS that there was no way they would even consider carrying BP/W systems because they would not teach students in them and/or endorse them, and that was shop policy. So that becomes a "standard" within that shop which is supported by PADI.

I just came back from the PADI Region 6 meeting a few hours ago, so I'm still in the training mode as it were. In general, Eric has it right, really. You have to think of the BCD emphasis as being on the student and what the LDS is renting AND that we're talking OW. Given that some students may only be able to dog paddle at best (which counts as swimming), jacket BCD is the lowest common denominator in simplicity of training. Teaching in what the student is wearing just avoids any confusion in what is already (or can be) a stressful or fear overcoming training situation. Just my .02.

Ahhh that said, I just realized the OP question is about IE, and somehow it drifted to PADI etc. Sorry, my bad for continuing that confusion.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Actually knowing what you are doing and how to.communicate that effectively eliminates any confusion and allows the instructor and student to.wear different rigs and have a completely successful outcome. Needing to be in the same gear as the student is nothing but a crutch. And possibly an indication of the limits of an instructors knowledge and ability. If a student is that stressed by simply being on scuba another activity might be more appropriate. It is also a very good argument for snorkeling and skin diving skills to be down before putting them on scuba.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Actually knowing what you are doing and how to.communicate that effectively eliminates any confusion and allows the instructor and student to.wear different rigs and have a completely successful outcome. Needing to be in the same gear as the student is nothing but a crutch. And possibly an indication of the limits of an instructors knowledge and ability. If a student is that stressed by simply being on scuba another activity might be more appropriate. It is also a very good argument for snorkeling and skin diving skills to be down before putting them on scuba.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

I couldn't have said it better.
I think a lot of the individual shop gear policies are closely related to overall sales quotas and marketing, no?
Around here when someone I know comes to me to know more about local diving, I always suggest to them that they do a couple of years of freediving for abalone or just skin dive for fun before they get certified. It makes for so much better and more confident divers.
At SSU they have a NAUI class that is a whole semester long. Part of it is a full skin diving education and rough water ocean acclimation skills before they are even allowed to use scuba.