Rebreather or Open Circuit?

[PfcAJ]

Anything can be called user error. Not turning on the o2 bottle is user error, but also specific to CCR. Old o2 cells are user error, but specific to CCR. Bad scrubbers, stiff valves, stuck injectors, etc etc. Call it what you want, but they are CCR specific problems that can't occur on OC. There is just more going on with a CCR than OC. More going on makes more points for something to go wrong. This doesn't make them bad, just more risky than OC.

 

[PfcAJ]

Having been to the same place dude died in JB with a single stage and a bit of backgas, I can say he didn't need it. They are tools, and I say take the right tool (safest tool) for the job. Sometimes its RB, sometimes its OC. Don't get all upset about it...

 

[SkimFisher]

Having been to the same place dude died in JB with a single stage and a bit of backgas, I can say he didn't need it. They are tools, and I say take the right tool (safest tool) for the job. Sometimes its RB, sometimes its OC. Don't get all upset about it...

...a tool you have to be proficient with. News flash - I don't need OC gear in a 10ft pool. But I wear it to stay proficient and test out gear configurations. I don't wait for 100' of water to make sure I'm comfortable with something.

Your logic implies that the only place for CCR training is at the bottom of the Mariana Trench....

Ever consider he wasn't there for a pleasure dive? Not all of us dive on a particular day for the same reasons. I'm just saying...

You also said it yourself - they're complicated. This only reinforces the point that they are a piece of equipment a diver needs to stay fresh on - which means diving it...a lot.

 

[DCBC]

A qualified operator using a CCR in open-water is much safer than a new diver diving air too deep, or an experienced OC diver diving in a cave (imo). I guess the point I'm trying to make is that each diver chooses the level of risk that's acceptable to him/her.

I don't know about you, but I really try to choose the right tool for the job. In saturation I use a CCR as a back-up breathing source. At 1000'+ this makes a lot of sense. If I'm doing a wreck penetration at 300', I'll use a CCR if it's available. If I'm diving a reef at 100' and want to enjoy myself, I use open-circuit; you couldn't pay me to use a CCR as I want to have fun and not worry about piloting. If someone else likes to use CCR all the time, no problem.

What equipment, make or model we select to use is our choice. Why should anyone judge another negatively because of their choice? If someone is trained to undergo a certain type of diving i.e. cave, wreck, CCR, etc. and they want to accept the risk, be my guest.

The main thing is that we are all brothers and that we appreciate, enjoy, conserve and protect the underwater world! Happy diving!

 

[TechBlue]

Anything can be called user error. Not turning on the o2 bottle is user error, but also specific to CCR. Old o2 cells are user error, but specific to CCR. Bad scrubbers, stiff valves, stuck injectors, etc etc. Call it what you want, but they are CCR specific problems that can't occur on OC. There is just more going on with a CCR than OC. More going on makes more points for something to go wrong. This doesn't make them bad, just more risky than OC.

And there have been fatalities from OC divers jumping into the water with their valves turned off. True their is more risk involved in rebreather diving which is why the there is more discipline involved but the benefits and options with rebreather diving far outweigh OC.

 

[Rhone Man]

You do not have the foggiest idea about what you are talking about, why should any of these divers not have been using a rebreather? Accidents happen but compared to the number of succesful dives undertaken that should not preclude using a breather.

I know that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, but I started the thread below after I read an article which extrapolated death rates and estimated rebreathers to be 900 times more likely to result in a fatality than OC:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/rebreather-diving/243450-900-times-more-deadly-than-oc.html

The link is posted inside the thread.

 

[Crock]

Not completely accurate

Everything is relative, what kind of diving would you like to do? Secondly bear in mind that diving breathers with those noisy bubblemakers can be troublesome because charters catering to OC mainly aren't too crazy about long runtimes when everybody is back on the boat waiting for you, so you also need to consider who you will be diving with, fortunately there are many breather divers out there so this is becoming less of a problem, maintenance is not really a big deal as it becomes part of the routine.

Depending on your long term goals for diving a breather can end up saving you quite a lot of money in OC equipment.

thank you for your response. I agree with you thats why I was thinking of a re-breather. I love long dives and like you said could be cheaper in the long run. What is a good base cost to set up on a re-breather?

 

[wedivebc]

I just want to say, I have been diving RB almost elusively for about 7 years now. I don't switch back and forth between OC and CCR depending on the dives, I do dives that my CCR allows me to do and usually I seek CCR buddies so my dives are not limited by OC equipment.
I bought a RB so I could do those dives and I take every opportunity to enjoy them.

 

[TechBlue]

thank you for your response. I agree with you thats why I was thinking of a re-breather. I love long dives and like you said could be cheaper in the long run. What is a good base cost to set up on a re-breather?

How long is a piece of string? It depends again which path you choose to take, most breather divers end up adding mods to their units and the sky is the limit, if you have the budget I would go CCR and not bother with SCR, my personal preference is MCCR as opposed to ECCR. I also would not dive a CCR without a BOV (OC built into your mouthpiece for bailout). Do a search for books on rebreathers by Mel Clark and start reading. It is a lot easier today to find places to do try dives and also talk to other breather divers, take it slow everybody has a preference and an opinion.

I agree with Dave to maintain and build your skillsets once you start diving a breather you want to try and use it exclusively switching back and forth between OC and breathers can be done but you are far better off sticking to the CCR. You need to practice your skills constantly to gain muscle reflex response to help you with problems or failures. Always know your PO2, Hypoxia, Hyperoxia and Hypercapnia are insidious and if you are not paying attention your body will start shutting down in survival mode and every skill becomes harder and slower to perform. That being said very little happens instananeously and as long as you are monitoring your displays most problems are quite easily solved, whenever in doubt take a sanity breath on OC to clear your head and evaluate your situation, if the problem can be solved go back on the loop and you are good to go or remain on your bailout and call the dive. As with any kind of diving make sure your buddy is familiar with your equipment practice both buddy and self rescue techniques. In most situations a CCR will give you more options to solve problems than OC. As opposed to OC you do not have to mix your gas for each dive so you are not locked in on a particular dive profile which means if a dive gets changed for whatever reason you are still good to go and do not have to worry about using your very expensive mix for a less than desireable dive. Reduced deco, you are breathing a warm moist gas, no cotton mouth to name few more benefits. This may all sound daunting but in round numbers I would guess there are about 10,000 civilian CCR divers out there and growing.

Join The Deco Stop and Rebreather World - Rebreathers for Scuba Diving - the next step there is a wealth of information out there for you to go through.

 

[wedivebc]

That being said very little happens instananeously and as long as you are monitoring your displays most problems are quite easily solved, whenever in doubt take a sanity breath on OC to clear your head and evaluate your situation, if the problem can be solved go back on the loop and you are good to go or remain on your bailout and call the dive.

I don't think this is very good advice. If you have gone off the loop due to a undisclosed problem such as possible hypercapnia, unknown PO2 you would be foolish to go back on a suspect loop. I can not think of any circumstances where a loop problem resolves itself and no circumstance where I would go back on a (potentially) defective breathing loop.
You are taught in MOD1, "when in doubt bailout". You should always carry enough bailout gas to get home at any point during the dive and there is NO need to go back on a suspect loop, especially if, as you indicated you got off to "clear your head". What possible malfunction could cause you to not have a clear head and how do you perceive it could be fixed in the water?