Rebreather idiot with question?

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Thanks for the comments. Here are a few:

"Your unit will have catistrophic failures once in a while so train for bailout."
How does one "bailout" of a dive where you spent 2 hours at, lets say, 150 ft? Don't you have quite a decompression obligation?

"What sounded good, 2 1/2 hours, 250' or both?"
Mostly the longer time. I am actually very cautious, so I'm not looking for depth for depth's sake.

"Study and read as much as possible."
Besides Jeff Bozanic's "Mastering Rebreathers" which was listed, what else?

And what do you guys think about the Megalodon?
 
UWSojourner:
(1) "Your unit will have catistrophic (sic) failures once in a while so train for bailout."

How does one "bailout" of a dive where you spent 2 hours at, lets say, 150 ft? Don't you have quite a decompression obligation?

(2) "Study and read as much as possible."
Besides Jeff Bozanic's "Mastering Rebreathers" which was listed, what else?

(3) And what do you guys think about the Megalodon?

UW,

(1) The post that you quote makes it sound as if catastrophic failures are a "once a week" occurrence. They are not. You do train for, and learn to do proper bail-out procedures. If you train properly, you will have enough gas avaiable to do your required deco.

(2) Yes, absolutely!

(3) Please don't take me wrong here, but you do not yet know enough about the subject to be asking that question, and starting up the "religious" argument! :eyebrow:

Rob Davie
 
UWSojourner:
"Your unit will have catistrophic failures once in a while so train for bailout."
How does one "bailout" of a dive where you spent 2 hours at, lets say, 150 ft? Don't you have quite a decompression obligation?
I'm with Rob on that one.
A 'catastrophic failure' refers to a complete loop failure, it means you have to get off the loop, using the rebreather is impossible. This is indeed a rare occurance, either due to damage (e.g. tearing or cutting a breathing hose) or sloppy pre-dive (e.g. missing a major seal).

A minor problem that can turn major (and yes, even fatal) if left unattended is much more likely (e.g. one of the valves getting stuck). There are ways to manage many if not most problems without bailing out to OC (for the rest of the dive, anyway) which, as Rob said, should be covered during training.
You'll spend most of the training time flying the rebreather manually to be able to use the rebreather if the electronics and automated systems fail for example.

In any event you'll need enough bailout gas to safely return to the surface, and safely includes any deco obligation you may incurr.
But for starters you aren't supposed to do deco dive with your initial RB certification and training. That is advanced RB diving, just as it would be on OC. When you accumulated the rec profile experience on your RB, and diving with it is second nature, you seek further instruction for deco procedures and planning. Simple as that. If you look at accident reports you'll find many a diver switching from from OC to CC after having done very advanced dives on the former. They frequently proceed to fast back to their old profiles even though they're still CC newbies ... sometimes with fatal consequences. That's one of the reason's why I believe it to be a good idea to first become proficient on the RB, then take technical training. Less to unlearn, less strain on the ego. :wink:

"What sounded good, 2 1/2 hours, 250' or both?"
Mostly the longer time. I am actually very cautious, so I'm not looking for depth for depth's sake.
Most any available RB will give you two hours of dive time. As gas is used sparely, the scrubber duration is generally the limit on CCRs. Most are rated at 3 hrs, with smaller 'travel' units between 2 and 2 1/2 hrs, and a few rigs 5 hrs or more. Depth rating is generally between 150 ft and 300 ft, with a few models rated deeper than that.
The 7, 8 and more hrs dives to 500 plus feet you hear about every once in a while are for the exploration minded and fall in the 'good luck' category.

"Study and read as much as possible."
Besides Jeff Bozanic's "Mastering Rebreathers" which was listed, what else?
There was another good book, by Steve Barsky, 'Simple Guide to Rebreathers'.
Well done and easier to read than Jeff's book (which is used as the RB textbook by NAUI). It's out of print, but you should be able to find a copy on the web.

Here a couple of links that'll get you plenty of info and even more links.
Rebreathers Worldwide - a huge collection of pictures and info, ranging from early rebreathers to the latest from Dive Shows.
http://www.therebreathersite.nl/
Furthermore you'll find links there to every RB manufacturer and many home builders. Also look out for Howard Hall's rebreather blunders on what not to do.

Richard Pyle's Learner's Guide to Rebreathers
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/lgrb.html

Ron Micjan's tmi website - here you find his own Dolphin CCR conversion (very thorough write-up) as well as tear-downs of the KISS, Sport Kiss, Prism, Inspiration, Megalodon and MK-5p. Ron just added a very good article regarding partial pressure that'll help understand how CCRs work.
http://www.tmishop.com/

The Golem Gear website - it has a very detailed tear-down and excellent graphics explaining the RB80 passive addition SCR
http://www.golemgear.com/scr/scrteardown.htm

Madmole's Inspiration Buddy site - Stephen dives that CCR and has a pretty intresting website regarding it. The owners survey is worth a look, and so is the accident section. Much to be learned there.
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/divemole.htm

And what do you guys think about the Megalodon?
I never used one, but I've seen them a couple of times and Leon talked me through it ... in a few words, capable, high end CCR. Beautifully but expensively machined, very solidly build. Electronics are in the middle of the pack, some good features (like the HUD) are optional.
I like the flexibility of different scrubber sizes and ability to use different tank sizes.
It's an expensive rebreather, though, and production has been pretty slow (machining most every part does take its time). I'm not aware of any independent testing or test results being available.
 
BigJetDriver69:
Please don't take me wrong here, but you do not yet know enough about the subject to be asking that question, and starting up the "religious" argument! :eyebrow:
Oops. Stumbled into something, huh? The question was only prompted because its produced pretty close to my home (Portland, OR). I thought that one might have a "home-court advantage".
 
UWSojourner:
Oops. Stumbled into something, huh? The question was only prompted because its produced pretty close to my home (Portland, OR). I thought that one might have a "home-court advantage".

UW,

The Meg is a good unit. I am not in any way knocking it. In fact, I know Leon (who designed and produces it), and find him to be very pleasant, and extremely talented. Also my boss, Tom Mount, dives the Meg a lot, and thinks very highly of it!

I would suggest that, if you can get hold of Leon, and talk nicely to him, he might let you visit his facility. You would learn more about rebreathers in one afternoon, than most people learn in a month.

Someone I know used to hang around the Steam Machines shop a lot, and wound up learning quite a lot in the process!! :wink:

Cheers!

Rob Davie
 
BigJetDriver69:
Someone I know used to hang around the Steam Machines shop a lot, and wound up learning quite a lot in the process!! :wink:
No doubt there is an awefull lot to be learned, and you're correct, I learned quite a bit at Steam Machines.

But that was a better than average place to learn for several reasons:
Pete's an engineer who worked on a lot of rebreather projects over the years.
There aren't many people who have such a wealth of knowledge and experience, maybe a handfull.

In addition Shas has what has to be one of the largest rebreather libraries in existence, at least when it comes to CCRs. It's an absolute treasure cove when you want to study the subject. Books, manuals, articles, correspondance, no matter how obscure, chances are she has it filed somewhere. If someone should write a book on CCRs, it's Shas.

And finally, they both were willing to share, I spend hours talking with Pete and bugging him with questions, ideas and thoughts, and more hours over materials from Shas' library. Maybe the most amazing thing is she read most all of it and remembers, usually the content, if not where to find it. No matter what model I threw at her, I would get a lecture and something to read, frequently followed more and related info.
No doubt an opportunity that is very rare and for which I'm greatfull.

They were also the ones who made the Porpoise Pack One and the SM1600 available for photography, with plenty of background info and a tryout on a Mk16 so I can share some it by writing the two articles for Janwillem's Rebreather Worlwide.

Anyway, if anyone has the chance to visit any of the factories and/or meet any of the designers and builders, jump on it. Fun way to learn, and learn you will. I had the opportunity to visit Divematics, and the chance to meet Leon and his Meg, the KISSing couple, Kevin with the Ouroboros, a Hammerheaded Kevin as well as Lambert and Johnson, the designers of the Frog and Tiger. I always learned something new and worth knowing.

So, who's gonna hook me up with Bill Stone? :D

Stefan

Add-ited: SMI also let me photograph their Fieno. If someone has an English manual for that unit, I'd love to do another article for Janwillem. :wink:
German would do, too.
 
caveseeker7:
And finally, they both were willing to share, I spend hours talking with Pete and bugging him with questions, ideas and thoughts, and more hours over materials from Shas' library.
Stefan

Stefan, No wonder our 10 PRISM's are taking awhile, with you talking to Pete for hours, and the move, leave the poor guy alone, he is busy building my toys :wink: :)

Cheers
Chris
 
Sydney_Diver:
No wonder our 10 PRISM's are taking awhile, with you talking to Pete for hours, and the move, leave the poor guy alone, he is busy building my toys
You crack me up, Chris. :lol:
I hope I get to meet you some day, but I'm glad I'm not around you every day. :wink:
When you requested a Prism-sized space on Matty's boat I ment to ask
how your Prism is. :linkz:
Just remember, you'll have yours before I get mine. :bluthinki

Stefan
 
Hehe
Hey Stefan
I hear Pete is now coming out here for OZTek, and to do the training personally.

Foolishly I think the training is the week after OZTek, I hope he can handle the :cheers: :cheers: consumption. and the :mfight:'s he has to try and train
I will be at DEMA this year for sure. Thinking of taking a further couple of weeks off work and heading somwhere in the States to do some diving. Nothing solid yet but will let you know.

Cheers
Chris
 
Sydney_Diver:
Hehe
Hey Stefan
Foolishly I think the training is the week after OZTek, I hope he can handle the :cheers: :cheers: consumption. and the :mfight:'s he has to try and train
Cheers
Chris

I think he's spent enough time with various navies to be able to manage both of those. Not to mention years of UK diving, getting blown out and having to spend the weekend in the pub.

Andy
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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