Rebreather Diver dies in Pool in Oregon

[wedivebc]

Educated guess...He closed his eyes and fell asleep due to the slowly increasing levels of CO2 in the system.

Not something you would take notice of if you were a little tired and shrugged off the growing fatigue as just being a little tired.

My deepest condolences to the family and friends.

Not very likely. Try breathing into a paper bag for a minute or two. The anxiety you feel is caused by rising CO2. The level of O2 has little to do with this discomfort in most people (except in certain cases mostly found in heavy smokers) . The symptoms you describe are from lack of O2 not increased CO2.

 

[padiscubapro]

Educated guess...He closed his eyes and fell asleep due to the slowly increasing levels of CO2 in the system.

Not something you would take notice of if you were a little tired and shrugged off the growing fatigue as just being a little tired.

My deepest condolences to the family and friends.

incorrect.. CO2 sysmtoms come on pretty quickly, and hit hard.. You KNOW its happening but you might not be able to reason what to do..

Hypoxia comes on slowly and usually without notice and you fall asleep then die..

SCRs in shallow water without hot mixes are dangerous.. They should never be used alone.. AT least with most CCRs (electronic) as long as the electronics are on something is independently monitoring you..

 

[omar]

I dove with Harvey on 2 dives and refused to dive with him ever again on a number of occasions over the last couple of years. Harvey, while a nice and well meaning guy, was mentally limited and I would estimate his IQ in the 60-70 range. I was dumbfounded when he found a dive instructor/shop that accepted him for rebreather class and even more so when he was certified for a rebreather.

Harvey managed to make his way into a rebreather class by setting it up online and submitting his dive log before he met personally with the dive shop instructor. This is after at least two local instructors refused to accept him into a rebreather course (He told me this personally which I verified). Harvey would typically dive 4 or 5 times a day 4 or 5 times a week when he could. These dives were shallow and about one hour duration. He had not gone deeper than 60 feet as recently as last year. While he accumulated numerous dives, the majority of them were in local ponds and his diving skill was limited. In my experience he was unable to objectively evaluate the risks his diving habits posed to himself even when they were pointed out and strongly discouraged.

Case in point: On our dive trip he chose to dive in 38-42 degF water while wearing, in order, dive shorts, a woman’s one piece Speedo, dive skin, 5mm wet suit, & 7mm wet suit and on his head was a ladies old style dive cap and then a 5mm hood. He had to wear 48 lbs of lead in this setup. On the first dive he got uncomfortable about 16 minutes into the dive and bolted to the surface from about 30 feet. When I surfaced to find out what happened he insisted everything was okay and then submerged. I followed and keep my eye on him, I called the dive after about 45 mins. When we were sitting on the dock his lips were blue and he was shaking uncontrollably. I made him wait 2 hours until I was sure that he was warmed up before we did our second dive. During this period I pointed out the dangers of diving in cold water and at altitude for older guys (we were at 6550 feet). During this period I determined that he knew the dive tables and related material by rote but could not evaluate new situations or critically analyze a given scenario to determine the right or best course of action. Again on the second dive he displayed behavior that concerned me which I tried to talk to him about on the drive home and which he politely ignored.

On a number of occasions over the next year Harvey told me that he was going to buy a rebreather to save money (He also subsisted on a limited income and must have gone without numerous meals to buy his rebreather). Every time I told him that rebreathers were dangerous and his money would be better spent on a drysuit. Again he politely ignored me each time.

My assessment of this accident goes to what I think is the root cause. Specifically, certifying someone on a rebreather who does not have the mental ability to critically evaluate the added risks of using a rebreather, the ability to assess problems or unusual conditions on the fly and who also does not have the financial ability to properly maintain a rebreather as well. I my mind the persons who certified Harvey are, to a large degree, responsible for this event.

omar

 

[Daylonious]

Wow. You know, my heart goes out to any diver that loses his life, but the ******* in me believes in social darwinism as well. If this guy was literally "buying" certifications and not taking proper steps to insure his safety, then maybe the karmic powers that be finally evened him out.

I know it sounds harsh, but I'd rather an unsafe diver lose his own life rather than diving with me and jeapardizing my life in the process..

From what (very little) I know about rebreathers, "playing" in shallow depths using mixes that you dove deep the day before is not a good idea.

You know kids, even the best trained of us has been guilty of just "jumping in and getting wet" without taking the proper precautions and safety checks that we know we should.

As they say, you rolls the dice, and yous takes yer chances.

That being said -

May all your dives be profound, zen-like meditations on the beauty of nature, and may you come back dumbfounded for any words which adequately describe your short trip down below.

D.

I dove with Harvey on 2 dives and refused to dive with him ever again on a number of occasions over the last couple of years. Harvey, while a nice and well meaning guy, was mentally limited and I would estimate his IQ in the 60-70 range. I was dumbf...<<<cut>>>

 

[tbrady]

What I've said publicly many times, I will repeat here on Scubaboard. Do not dive alone using a rebreather. Every rebreather will fail at some time. CCR or SCR, the risk is to great to solo dive a RB. Deep or in a pool. Any failure leads to the same result - unconsciousness and drowning. Read the reports. Instructors, newbies, experienced, all drowned while solo diving RB. Dive them with a buddy at arms length.

 

[carldarl]

Wow... I would like to offer prayers to Harvey's friends and family as well as anyone else effected by this tragic accident. I also pray none of his family are reading this thread and have to read the post made by Omar. I find it both unneeded and inappropriate at this time.

 

[Mr.X]

I dove with Harvey on 2 dives and refused to dive with him ever again on a number of occasions over the last couple of years. Harvey, while a nice and well meaning guy, was mentally limited and I would estimate his IQ in the 60-70 range.

My assessment of this accident goes to what I think is the root cause. Specifically, certifying someone on a rebreather who does not have the mental ability to critically evaluate the added risks of using a rebreather, the ability to assess problems or unusual conditions on the fly and who also does not have the financial ability to properly maintain a rebreather as well. I my mind the persons who certified Harvey are, to a large degree, responsible for this event.

omar

I would tend to agree. Educators who are willing to train and certify adults with cognitive deficiencies should be held accountable. Adults with an IQ range of 60-70 do not generally make it out of elementary school. Given that, how did this person manage to pass standardized RB tests (written, oral & performance)? On a purely speculative basis I would say that this individual had some remarkable coping and persuasive abilities. It is quite common for illiterate folks to get through life by faking it. Very sad tale and my condolences.

 

[carldarl]

I won't speculate on Harvey's IQ as I only met him once this past summer when we were introduced at a club dive. He was diving his rebreather then, apparently with no problems at the time. I will say I didn't notice any lack of cognitive skills and he seemed to be a normal, regular, enthusiastic diver just like the rest of us.

Omar, I assume you dove with him at Redfish Lake and yes, the water there is that cold even in July/August. I would probably be in a 7mm plus a 3mm jacket as well with 7mm gloves and hood. If it was during Boise Water Sports summer party, might he have been merely having fun and messing around with the unusual dress? You know, like the BBQ chef cooking all day in his mask and snorkel? Who knows.

Here is his memmorial service information for anyone interested.

January 7th
2:00 or 2:30 PM
Calvary Holiness Church - Wilder, ID
Phone #761-7843

 

[wedivebc]

I just noticed the title of the thread. Isn't Thunder Reef in Vancouver Wa?

 

[padiscubapro]

I just noticed the title of the thread. Isn't Thunder Reef in Vancouver Wa?

as far as I know..
I Have this address
Thunder Reef
12104 N.E. Highway 99
Vancouver,WA, 98686

The article has the same address but lists Salmon creek as the city...