I'm curious as what the thoughts are on the RBGM (Suunto) for decompression. Not necessarily for tech dives, but for dives that end up passing NDLs...
RBGM - Suunto - Trustworthy?
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Dr Deco
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I am not quite sure of the question.
Matt S.
Contributor
I think he is trying to ask if Suunto's deco model sucks or not.
It has a reputation for being conservative. That means it will typically give you less NDL than another brand computer on the same dive.
Some people like that. Some people think it is cheating them of bottom time and hate it.
You probably won't find anyone saying, "Oh, Suunto, those suck. A Suunto killed my dad."
It has a reputation for being conservative. That means it will typically give you less NDL than another brand computer on the same dive.
Some people like that. Some people think it is cheating them of bottom time and hate it.
You probably won't find anyone saying, "Oh, Suunto, those suck. A Suunto killed my dad."
OP
hahahah matt, well put...
i'm just wondering if you would trust a suunto's decompression model if for instance you happened to spend 5 minutes at 60 meters? if you were making a deco plan on paper you would most likely figure in a few deep stops, the suunto wouldn't require you to... sorry for the confusion
i'm just wondering if you would trust a suunto's decompression model if for instance you happened to spend 5 minutes at 60 meters? if you were making a deco plan on paper you would most likely figure in a few deep stops, the suunto wouldn't require you to... sorry for the confusion
Matt S.
Contributor
I think all the current Suuntos will use deep stops if you want them to. If you don't turn that on then it is a more traditional profile. Whatever that means. You'll never catch me in deco.
As to trustworthiness--either it is or it isn't, ya know? I doubt it would work perfectly in one situation but miscalculate and kill you if you hit 60m for 5 minutes or some other combination. But that is way outside where I'll ever be diving. I just use a computer to help me track NDL and log dives.
Hey, if you are doing deco plans and hitting 60m, isn't that... tech diving?
As to trustworthiness--either it is or it isn't, ya know? I doubt it would work perfectly in one situation but miscalculate and kill you if you hit 60m for 5 minutes or some other combination. But that is way outside where I'll ever be diving. I just use a computer to help me track NDL and log dives.
Hey, if you are doing deco plans and hitting 60m, isn't that... tech diving?
miketsp
Contributor
All the situations I've been in and have simulated, my VYPER is similar or slightly more conservative than my CMAS tables.
For the example you give of 5mins at 60m, let's say a first dive with 9mins bottom time (4mins to get down) the table stops would be 3 mins at 6m and 4 mins at 3m. For the same dive the Vyper algorithm doesn't give fixed stops but a deco curve starting at 5,5m and finally liberating at 2,4m with only a slightly longer time. For a second dive the Vyper would be more conservative than the table.
For the example you give of 5mins at 60m, let's say a first dive with 9mins bottom time (4mins to get down) the table stops would be 3 mins at 6m and 4 mins at 3m. For the same dive the Vyper algorithm doesn't give fixed stops but a deco curve starting at 5,5m and finally liberating at 2,4m with only a slightly longer time. For a second dive the Vyper would be more conservative than the table.
OP
cool stuff...thanks for the input!!
Spratman
Contributor
RGBM isn't about conservatism, as much as it is for the prevention of microbubble formation. The idea is that you do your first stop at half your total depth for one minute. Then whatever your dive plan calls is for the remainder of the off-gassing. This would hopefully provide for less chance of DCS problems, since you are preventing bubbles from forming, thereby off-gassing more rapidly. It does allow for longer bottom times if you are running tables. Your computer may not agree to this.
The conservatism of your computer is likely to be more of a fact that the manufacturer is covering their liability as to a lawsuit. If you want more or less conservatism, raise or lower your PO2. I don't do this, I leave it set at 1.4 myself.
Nearly all the new computers will compute an accidental deco obligation and adjust for it. I have an older Cressi Archimedes with the Buhlmann ZH-L16 and it will warn you if you exceeded your NDL time.
Also, the only difference between the Vytec and the Vytec DS (Deep Stop) is that you can program your deep stops into the computer. IMO, it's not worth the extra cash...
My 2psi.
The conservatism of your computer is likely to be more of a fact that the manufacturer is covering their liability as to a lawsuit. If you want more or less conservatism, raise or lower your PO2. I don't do this, I leave it set at 1.4 myself.
Nearly all the new computers will compute an accidental deco obligation and adjust for it. I have an older Cressi Archimedes with the Buhlmann ZH-L16 and it will warn you if you exceeded your NDL time.
Also, the only difference between the Vytec and the Vytec DS (Deep Stop) is that you can program your deep stops into the computer. IMO, it's not worth the extra cash...
My 2psi.
OP
I've been diving on a Suunto Stinger...there's no option to turn deep stops on/off but in the manual it says it uses them... But if what you're saying is correct about the 1st stop at half your total depth (I completely agree with this), my computer is not asking me to make these stops. It Gives me a ceiling (typically around 5-6m) and my ASC time. I would think this ceiling should be the deep stop, but it's obviously not giving them to me (though I would make them anyway). Anyone know anything about Oceanic's algorithm for deco? I brand new Atom 2.0...trying to decide whether to keep it as a backup or just return it (my first one was faulty).
Spratman
Contributor
The Stinger doesn't have a deep stop algorithm. It uses the traditional safety stops. If you bought the Vytec DS, and you chose the deep stop function and it will automatically calculate depth and time (you can set it to one or two minute stops).
This is from the Suunto manual:
"3.2.3. Deep Stops
The Suunto Vytec allows the user to choose a deep stop algorithm instead or the traditional recommended safety stop. Deep Stops are decompression stops that occur deeper than traditional stops, with the purpose of minimizing microbubble formation and excitation.
The Suunto RGBM model calculates deep stop iteratively, placing the first stop about halfway between the maximum depth and the ceiling depth. After the first deep stop has been completed, another deep stop will be prompted halfway to the ceiling, and so on until the ceiling depth
is reached. The deep stop length can be set to 1 or 2 minutes. Enabling the Deep Stops disables the Recommended Safety Stops, but the Mandatory Safety Stops due to e.g. continuous ascent rate violations are still prompted."
Oceanic uses DSAT algorithm, as does Aeris. I don't know much about DSAT other than it's a PADI developed algorithm. There have been many issues with the Atom 2.0. (check out some of the posts on SB) I would opt for a different computer.
Five meters would be about 20ft, which is where most computers consider the start of a normal safety stop.
Cheers!
This is from the Suunto manual:
"3.2.3. Deep Stops
The Suunto Vytec allows the user to choose a deep stop algorithm instead or the traditional recommended safety stop. Deep Stops are decompression stops that occur deeper than traditional stops, with the purpose of minimizing microbubble formation and excitation.
The Suunto RGBM model calculates deep stop iteratively, placing the first stop about halfway between the maximum depth and the ceiling depth. After the first deep stop has been completed, another deep stop will be prompted halfway to the ceiling, and so on until the ceiling depth
is reached. The deep stop length can be set to 1 or 2 minutes. Enabling the Deep Stops disables the Recommended Safety Stops, but the Mandatory Safety Stops due to e.g. continuous ascent rate violations are still prompted."
Oceanic uses DSAT algorithm, as does Aeris. I don't know much about DSAT other than it's a PADI developed algorithm. There have been many issues with the Atom 2.0. (check out some of the posts on SB) I would opt for a different computer.
Five meters would be about 20ft, which is where most computers consider the start of a normal safety stop.
Cheers!
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