Quick Changeover with Air2 and Standard Octo

[Marshmellow]

Fellow divers,

After doing a lot of research in the Scubaboard archive, I've come to the conclusion that using the Air2 on my Aeris EX Lite, with it's lack of right shoulder dump, creates some issues in regards to an OOA or other emergency when it comes to controlling buoyancy. ScubaPro actually recommends using a 2nd right shoulder dump BCD with it's Air2. The experienced diver I bought the Air2 from said he used it when he started solo diving (something I plan to occasionally do). Given my primary buddy (and soon to be my wife) is a newbie (also me to a large extent with only 150 dives under my belt) I'm thinking it will be safer for us to use the standard octo rig with a longer hose bungeed and held in place by the right shoulder D ring.


However, my passion being UW photography, I like the idea of my Air2 for solo work. This got me thinking about how I could set the BCD rig up efficiently to choose between either of the two approaches (solo vs buddy) without changing out hoses on the first stage. I noticed the Maximus 5600 FS has a 2nd primary LP port facing directly up, center top when all other hoses are in their optimum position. Is there a 90 degree swivel that I can use with my Air2 hose that will allow me to swivel the hose to my left for connecting to the Air 2 and than to the right if I want to add a longer yellow hose with an octopus attaching to the Air2 hose quick disconnect? This seems like it would make for an efficient and safe changeover set-up to a standard octo configuration when diving with buddies, plus give me a little longer octo line with the added length of the Air2 hose. It then would just be a simple of matter switching out the Air2 + hose dump assembly with the Aeris power inflator that came with the BCD (also a pull dump).


I understand the risks involved in solo diving and only plan to do it from shore on occasion. I'm well equipped with Air Alert, whistles, mirror, surface marker, including inflatable signal devices. I've also extensively read most of the posts regarding the use of the Air2 vs. Octopus, including the use of a longer 2nd stage hose. As it is, my primary 2nd stage is a Sherwood Maximus which already has a 48" hose for under the arm use (which I really like). That said, please don't bother responding with the general virtues of using an Air2 vs standard Octo or the dangers of solo diving; these subjects are well covered in the archives and I've read most of them leading to this decision. However, If you've successfully used the pull dump on the Air2 hose or had problems doing so while breathing off the Air2, that would be welcome, since I've found little info on that in particular. To be specific, I was wondering if there are other divers who have set their rigs up in such a way or if there any concerns you may think of using a swivel at the first stage or a use of a quick disconnect in such a manner? I would think not, but getting feedback from those that have done it or see a problem with such an arrangement would be helpful.


Thank you guys on scuba board, you are great. I'm so thankful for this site.


Best,


Marshall

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If you are gonna solo dive get a pony bottle. If you are unsure about dumping air from bc while using it, practice that skill while using the Air 2 or.. sell it..

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I have been photographing/videotaping underwater for a lot of years and have no trouble using a seven foot primary hose and a backup reg bungeed under my chin. If I ever need to share air I simply nod my head so the donor can use a reg I know is working and I can use a reg I know hasn't dragged in the dirt the way standard octopus regs do.

 

[uncfnp]

I solo dive and I have an in-line alternate air so I am twice damned so to speak and I am not sure I entirely understand the question but here goes.

I do not use the shoulder dump so know for a fact you do not need this to dive safely. I would not choose to reconfigure my gear just to use this valve.

I keep pretty much the same basic gear set up for all my dives, solo or buddy, unless diving under the most benign conditions, then I omit the pony.

Why do you want the Air2 to solo. In this scenario, its there as a back up if your primary malfunctions. If you can not manage trim in an air share with the Air2, why would you be able to do this when using it as a backup regulator. Technically, for a solo dive, you don't even need an octo or in-line alternate air. Your pony set up serves this purpose.

Obviously, do what's right to you, but I recommend choosing either the Air2 or standard Octo and use it consistently in both buddy and solo dives.

 

[Marshmellow]

I wanted to use the Air2 to streamline things, like with my underarm Maximus primary, but don't feel comfortable using it with my fiancé who is still learning to dive. Really good point on trimming air with or without a buddy should I have primary failure and the dump configuration doesn't work as planned. As pointed out, only practicing with the Air2 will answer that question. Maybe that's a non-issue that Air2 users could comment on until I can get to the pool to test things out. It's becoming clear there are many ways to approach safety and back-up systems. As for those times I may be diving solo, you've made me realize a Pony would be more important then my Octo configuration should I have a failure, especially if it's a 1st stage. Appreciate all the feedback one gets from divers with experience on this site. Whatever approach we end up with will be practiced as much as possible. I can see how consistency and sticking with one system has it's advantages. Thank you.

 

[BabyDuck]

what makes you uncomfy about the air2 with your newbie wife? because she would get the reg in your mouth - easy for her. *you* get the air2, so as long as *you* know how to work it, easy for you. i'm not getting what part you're worried about. could you explain that again, please?

 

[Marshmellow]

BabyDuck, I don't have any problem or fear with giving over my primary in an OOA emergency. But in thinking safety, I had read that some divers thought that having to rely on the integrated air pull dump while the regulator was in their mouth would be problematic, suggesting a limited amount of head movement and a more complex situation to dump air if needed, all very reasonable concerns. Some said they relied on their right shoulder dump in such a situation. ScubaPro even suggests using a BCD with a right shoulder dump to address the issue. Some Air2 users who don't have a R shoulder dump employ creative ways to achieve the same effect, one said he lightly pushes his air purge button. Since the new Aeris EX Lite travel BCD's I bought for her and I don't have a right shoulder dump, we'll have to rely on the Air2 hose left shoulder dump should we need to adjust our buoyancy. Some divers said that in an emergency, especially with a newbie who might be more prone to panic, you really want some space and movement flexibility to deal with the situation such as long hoses and regulators.

Personally, I really like the idea of the Air2 for streamline and travel packing reasons. The one I got came with the Sherwood Maximus reg and long underarm hose which feels really comfortable. The experienced diver I bought it from said you'll really love the Air2 and he began using it when he started solo diving. It fit perfectly on my Aeris travel BCD. The long hose of the Maximus seemed well suited too for using with the Air2 because of it's added length. But after reading the many posts in the archive, I realized safety for my buddy is paramount which lead me to the idea of easily changing out the configuration. After starting this post, however, the more I thought about it, the quick changeover idea wouldn't work, because there would be no pressure hose for the Aeris inflator after dedicating it to the Octo.....sort of missed that minor detail in my earlier thinking So I'm back to either having us both go with Air2 and becoming very familiar with them or go with the standard Octopus and sell the Air2 which was one of the above recommendations. I'm leaning towards the latter now.

As suggested, getting in the water and working with it will probably be the only way I can answer these questions for myself. Living in the desert right now and have no where to dive until I return back to the Philippines in Dec (she's a filipino) makes it rather difficult for either of us to become familiar with the new set-up. There is however, a dive shop with a deep pool in town, so I've been planning on calling them to check out the gear and see how it all balances out on me. In the meantime I've been hunting on eBay for a 2nd Air2 for her, that is, until I started reading all the posts on Air2 vs Octopus in the archives. This has slowed me down and made me think things out before heading down that road.

Any Air2 lovers out there who regularly use it's shoulder dump pull with no problems in an emergency situation? The guy I bought it from said he had over 750 dives with it before he had to use it in an emergency when his buddy had a high pressure problem. Should one come up, I want to make sure my buddy and I have the best possible scenario, especially until she develops more confidence under water. She just learned how to swim and has about 10 dives with me, so I'm concerned.

Sure appreciate the advise and opinions.

 

[BabyDuck]

do you not have bottom dumps on that bc? if so, maybe use those? if you're horizontal in the water, go a bit butt-up and dump. if you're in the 'iron grip on buddy's bc with right hand' vertical position, you don't have a right hand available to dump, anyway. if you need to take the reg out of your mouth to dump, that's acceptable if you're calm.

but if you want more space, then of course the answer is long hose (maybe 5ft) and bungied backup. if you decide to keep the air2 (and some people really love them), practice until comfortable & then continue to drill. practice is the answer no matter what you decide equipment-wise.

 

[Marshmellow]

Yes, I actually do have a lower right dump on the Aeris EX Light. I figured it wouldn't work very well in a vertical position, but perhaps well enough if we were over-inflated. Truth is I've never had an emergency or had a need to pull on my lower dump. Both of us will be using Sherwood Maximus regs with it's standard 4' hose, so there's a little more length than usual so at least as good if not better than the standard 40" Octopus hose when giving up the primary. It's one of the things I liked about the Air2 and Maximus combo. My main worry was in keeping us calm and not having to deal with other issues that the Air2 could possibly bring up. But practice and getting familiar with our own gear is very important as you point out. She initially didn't want me to spend the money on BCD for each of us, but we've both seen some pretty good and pretty shabby rental gear.

I'll be leaving the camera rig at home for a while so we can focus on practicing emergency procedures. There's also a pool in Manila that we might be able to use in a more controlled environment. Right now I'm trying to shore up the gear on ebay and start making preparations for my return in a few months. Finding good quality used gear in the Philippines is rather difficult from my experience. Of course, whatever I get here can be sold at a profit over there. I won't have any problems getting rid of a couple Air2 if we don't like them.

Thanks BabyDuck (love your name

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You are not going to be using a butt dump in an emergency. You are going to be going up vertically facing the other person. If you want to dump you can remove the air 2 from your mouth and dump the air. It takes a moment, but will require you to use your hand. If you are diving in warm water, with minimal wetsuit, just how much and how often do you think your are going to need to vent air from your BC anyway? You may end up dumping all your air and using the victim's bc to "ride up" and dump their air on the ascent because they may not be able to do it themselves.

If you take a pony bottle. In an emergency, you can just donate the primary and then you have a choice of using the pony or the Air 2 for yourself during the ascent. I have used an air 2 for maybe 15 years now. They seem to work well for me. People love to hate them, and claim they are dangerous for a recreational diver. I don't buy any of it.. I have them on my kid's BC too.