quick b/p questions?

[divedivedive!]

Hi there, I just hopped onto the bandwagon and got a backplate and wings combo ($250, used, for an aluminium b/p, harness, S/S STA and 27lb Halcyon wing without the integrated cam straps - is that a good price?). I'm taking it for a weekend of diving in a couple of days but before I do so I've got some "idiot" questions as a 1st-time user that I hope someone here might know the answer to...

1. What would the negative buoyancy on such a rig be?

2. Where should I put my sausage (surface marker, get your minds out of the gutters!), assuming I have no pockets anywhere on me? The sausage comes with a plastic d-ring.

3. When they say the shoulder straps should be quite loose - 3 fingers width - does that mean, umm, three fingers placed flat on my chest or perpendicular to it? If you see what I mean. (this was the aforementioned "idiot" question)

4. Is there any reason why such get-ups use a weight belt-style buckle at the waist instead of a quick release? I understand the logic behind avoiding them on the shoulder straps but on the waist, firstly I'm of the opinion that the buckle-style is more prone to accidental opening, and secondly even if it were to come off its not like the whole BC will fall off you... you have a crotch strap + your arms are still in there. So I would've thought the ease of use factor as well as the ability to remove in a hurry would make the quick release a better option here?

Gee, the whole b/p wing set-up is so simplistic yet well-thought through that I can't think of anything else to ask. Hope that someone out there could help me on this.

 

[Lost Yooper]

1. Not sure with the AL plate, but probably less than 3-4lbs or so.

2. Bungie it to your BP with two bungie straps, or get a BP pocket and put it in there. I keep mine bungied to the right side of the plate.

3. Three fingers perpendicular to your chest with a wetsuit. Of course, this is just a rule of thumb. It depends on your flexibility and your suit. I think I have about four fingers with a drysuit,

4. Better security and durability without effecting safety. You can get out in a real hurry if you want to. You're talking a second or two max here.

Yeah, I'd say that was a decent deal.

Good luck.

Mike

 

[Wendy]

Halcyon sells a pocket kinda thing that attaches to the backplate and you can store lift bags, surface markers, etc in.

You could also get the dive rite thigh pocket (it comes with a harness attachment and velcros around the thigh, but that's tacky and not DIR either). You can remove the velcro from it and the harness attachment and sew it directly onto your wetsuit. Sew it on the left outside of the thigh so it is in line with your shoulders. If you sew it on the front of the thigh it will create unneeded drag.

Congrats on your new gear, that's a great price too!

 

[jetblast00]

That's a great price for all that, good find!

1. the Al backplate is just under 2#, I think that the STA is about 5# or so though, so that's -7# bouancy right there.

2. bungee it to the bottom of the plate, or get the backplate storage pak from halcyon, or attatch a plastic tube to the bottom of the backplate and stuff 'yer sausage in there.

3. The harness on the shoulders should NOT be quite loose, it should be somewhat snug. You shouldn't have to struggle to get in or out with your suit on, but it should be almost that snug...

4. plastic buckles break. sewed seams rip. bottom line is that saftey (to what ever degree) is given first priority with these types of products.

also, have you considered where to position your D-rings? ahhh... yea, those have to be given consideration too.
Put your arm by your side, bend your arm at the elbow (without moving your upper arm) and bring your hand to your shoulder. Where your fingers are is where the shoulder D-rings should be.

 

[divedivedive!]

Hi y'all

Thanks for the responses! No one I know owns one of these things where I am, so its nice to have a knowledgeable group to come to for help.

Glad it was a good deal - God bless eBay and Buy-it-now, especially given that the wing and the STA have barely been dived.

1. Weighting
Hmm - anywhere from 3-7lbs - think I'll only know for sure once I jump into the water.

2. Sausage
I'll try to find a spot to bungee the sausage onto the backplate, although mine doesn't seem to have all those extra slots and holes to slip the cords through.

Unfortunately I don't always dive with a wetsuit (warm water wuss?) and couldn't sew if my life depended on it so pockets aren't an option...

3. Shoulder straps
This idiot has duly been enlightened

4. Quick release?
Well yes, plastic is more prone to breaking, but at the same time IMO the weight belt-style buckle seems more liable to be accidentally loosened/unfastened. I'm sure we've all had weight belts come close to slipping off. OTOH the clip-style quick releases are pretty hard to trigger off by accident. Now if only they came in stainless steel...

Anyway because I'm hardly DIR (short primary hose, integrated octo/inflator, splitfins, etc - stroke and happy to be one) I've put the quick release on. George Irvine be damned!

jetblast - D-rings - they're there, but they're cutting my delicate pampered skin. I think this comes down to the shoulder strap tightness issue though...

THANKS!

 

[detroit diver]

Originally posted by divedivedive!


...
Anyway because I'm hardly DIR (short primary hose, integrated octo/inflator, splitfins, etc - stroke and happy to be one) I've put the quick release on. George Irvine be damned!
...

and

Gee, the whole b/p wing set-up is so simplistic yet well-thought through that I can't think of anything else to ask. Hope that someone out there could help me on this.

THANKS!

Okay, now I'm curious. Why would you be so into "simplistic, well thought-out", and yet be proud of the fact that everything else you've got is 180 degrees from this thinking? Just doesn't make sense to me....

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by divedivedive!
4. Quick release?
Well yes, plastic is more prone to breaking, but at the same time IMO the weight belt-style buckle seems more liable to be accidentally loosened/unfastened. I'm sure we've all had weight belts come close to slipping off. OTOH the clip-style quick releases are pretty hard to trigger off by accident. Now if only they came in stainless steel...

Roughly 150 dives on two backplates so far, and never a slip of the buckle. Even if it does slip (or rather, when I'm removing the unit underwater or on the surface on a kayak dive), the crotch strap tends to keep it in place if I don't specifically pull the belt through it.

If your buckle slips: run it back through, continue diving.

If your quick-release breaks: stop diving until you can replace it back on shore. That would be a royal PITA on a liveaboard.

It really seems to me that you're overcompensating for a problem that doesn't exist, while creating a new one.

 

[divedivedive!]

Originally posted by detroit diver


Okay, now I'm curious. Why would you be so into "simplistic, well thought-out", and yet be proud of the fact that everything else you've got is 180 degrees from this thinking? Just doesn't make sense to me....

You're right, I was overstating the "pride" thing somewhat. However, I would like to say that I think each aspect of my configuration is perfectly given my diving context - tropical open water, no deeper than 35m, no wreck penetration, no caverns in sight. For example, while I can see the benefits of a long primary hose, these benefits are multiplied in a restricted passage scenario like a cave or a wreck. In open water diving, while the freedom to manoeuvre is good, we're also trained to keep the OOA individual close by, so 7ft isn't absolutely necessary. Same for fins - jetfins might stir up less silt, but there isn't silt in small spaces where I dive, so the less-fatiguing benefits of splits wins there. So why should I go b/p+wings? Not to Do It Right per se, but because I think the trim and unclutteredness of such a rig would be nice.

Of course I love me a good, sensible bandwagon so maybe in 6 months I'll look back and think I was talking out of my arse, so to speak.

Originally posted by metridium


It really seems to me that you're overcompensating for a problem that doesn't exist, while creating a new one.

Perhaps, but then again I'll only be diving the set-up for the first time this coming saturday when I'll see for myself its nuances. I'm only regarding the buckle in the same way I do weight belt buckles (esp since the one on my harness is plastic and I can't get a s/s one before the dive) which have accidentally opened up on me enough to know that it might happen.

Assuming you're right though, then one thing about the possibility of quick releases breaking that puzzles me is its continued use on many of Halcyon's weighting accessories, like the ACB and keel weight systems. I know they're not DIR, but I would've thought that on something as essential as weight pockets, with uncontrolled ascent posing serious hazards, they'd use something... not plastic, as you say. No?

Anyway - as I say I'll be diving in the thing in about 32 hours - I'll get back to y'all then with a gear report.

Cheers for the feedback, folks!

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by divedivedive!


Assuming you're right though, then one thing about the possibility of quick releases breaking that puzzles me is its continued use on many of Halcyon's weighting accessories, like the ACB and keel weight systems. I know they're not DIR, but I would've thought that on something as essential as weight pockets, with uncontrolled ascent posing serious hazards, they'd use something... not plastic, as you say. No?

I'd suspect in the case of the ACBs the use of quick-release buckles may a function of space-limitation and/or ease of use underwater. I can replace my ACB pockets underwater, with a bit of difficulty, but a belt-style buckle would be difficult to fasten due to the encumbrance and would require the use of both hands.

Another option would be the Dive-Rite pockets, which feature velcro fasteners.

I'm unfamiliar with the keel weights, so of no help there.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by divedivedive!
one thing about the possibility of quick releases breaking that puzzles me is its continued use on many of Halcyon's weighting accessories, like the ACB and keel weight systems.

They're a kludge!
And you are correct... they are not DIR....

Possible point you are missing about the SS weight belt buckle is the other functions that it plays....

1) means of tightening the whole rig... everything is supposed to be loose until the waist belt is cinched up...that tightens the crotch strap which in turn tightens the shoulder straps and the process is reversed to make the rig easy to doff. I often re-cinch my waist strap once in the water and with a 20' squeeze on the suit... you are not dealing with drysuits but the same works in a lesser way with your 1.5 mil wetsuit.

2) the waistbelt buckle holds the light canister so that it does not slide down to the belly rider position. Since you are not diving with a canister light this has nothing to do with you... however you might elect to slide a pocket onto the right side of the waste belt and the buckle could be used to locate it in the correct position.

Perhaps the plastic QR will be just fine for your recreation use and I certainly wouldn't criticize you for using it....

I just like my rig to fit securely but yet be easy to get on and off.