Questions on the Ikelite substrobe 200

[RonFrank]

I just purchased an Ikelite substrobe 200 on ebay. I think I got a good deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7205956288&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT&rd=1

Unfortunately I'm not sure this is the best strobe for me. I would rather have got the DS-125, but this seemed to be too good of a deal to pass on. Actually I serious doubted I'd win this strobe with the price I entered as I was not watching the auction in the end.

I got it thinking that I'll have a DSLR in housing in my future, but right now I would like to use it with my Canon S70. I have a few questions.

First, what is the best way to fire this? I assume the manual controller. Anyone try this with the TTL controller? Ikelite does not recommend this option. R there other options available, maybe like other slave options? Anyone else make cords for Ikelite strobes that are worth looking into?

I need to get a charger for this. Is the Ikelight smart charger the best option? R there other less expensive options? $100 for a charger is not cheap.

I need to get the mounting arms? Any prefrences in trays and Arms. I'm certainly not stuck on Ikelite, and am willing to entertain other options, even DIY options if there are some good suggestions out there.

In general, I'm not too worried about the lack of iTTL. I'll likely have a D200 next March, but maybe not a housing. I assume I will be able to fire this using the D200? However it would be nice to be able to use this with my current PnS S70 setup.

Info in general on this strobe and using it with various options is appreciated. While I think Ikelite makes good products, I think their website leaves a LOT to be desired in terms of explaining options, and compatibility. Or maybe the site navigation is poor to the point I'm missing something.

I guess a last question is where do people recommend purchasing the stuff I will need to get this setup going?

Thanks in advance,

 

[ssra30]

This was an excellent deal for you. FYI Ikelite is supposed to release an update of SS200 in the next couple of months, DS200.
You should be able to use SS200 as manual strobe with D200 just fine (I know somebody who is using SS200 with D2X) but I don't think you will be able to use it with Ikelite optical trigger sensor. Most likely you will need to hardwire it if possible.

 

[bobf]

Ron,

Happy Holidays! Great strobe find!

First, what is the best way to fire this?

The Ikelite optically triggered Manual Controller (#4100.6) and grey TTL sensor (#4100.5) are not compatible with the earlier generation SS200 (they require power from the DS series strobes to operate.... the SS is not a DS strobe). One triggering option to consider is Matthias Heinrichs' Digital Adapter. Although I have no personal experience with the product, it does appear to have a satisfied following. Email Matthias directly for specifics. He lists both your Canon S70 camera and SS200 as compatible!

http://www.heinrichsweikamp.net/blitz/indexe.htm

Is the Ikelight smart charger the best option?

imho yes. I began with the basic charger. But when I purchased my second DS 125, I added the smart charger to my gear bag. More user friendly, much faster (full charge in less than 90 minutes), reported to be better for the nicad pack, works 50-60, 110-240............

even DIY options if there are some good suggestions out there.

Mark Furth is experimenting with a DIY strobe arm project:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10720

I guess a last question is where do people recommend purchasing the stuff I will need to get this setup going?

Ryan Canon at Reef Photo knows this stuff inside and out............

And I'm confident that Ike Brigham and staff will answer all your specific questions:

ike@ikelite.com

hth,
b

 

[mart1]

If the S70 has a pre-flash (I know the S80 does), the SS200 will not work with your camera, as it will fire at the pre-flash.

mart

 

[bobf]

The Heinrichs Weikamp DA 2 when set to Mode 2: Normal-TTL can be programmed to ignore up to 3 preflashes. The S 70 I believe utilizes a single pre-flash. By setting the DA 2 to ignore a pre-flash in this configuration, it may still be programmed to subsequently send an electronic command to fire a sync cord attached external strobe (SS200) on the following main flash (optical trigger)which coincides (in sync) with the shutter event of the S 70.

Therefore, at least in theory, the DA 2~SS 200~ S 70 combination is feasible when manual strobe control is desired.

The S70 would be set to manual mode and the SS 200 would be also. Flash output of the S70 could be set to minimum (1/3) since it's only requirement in this configuration would be to trigger the DA 2, which in kind will convert the optical signal received from the onboard flash to an electronic signal sent to command the SS 200 to fire a pre-determined flash output.

Flash output of the SS 200 would influence foreground exposure along with aperture chosen on the digicam. Aperture and Shutter speed would influence background exposure. Due to the immense power rating of the SS 200 (gn 38, UW, FT, ISO 100) I would try ISO 50 (gn 27, UW, FT, ISO 50) as a start for a camera that has a minimum aperture available of f/8, especially for macro work.

I'm aware that Maarten and Ron understand the previous principles and explanations. I included them for newbies who may be following this thread.

And to reiterate, I have not personally attempted to repeat the above scenarios. It is all theory based on manufacturers specs and manuals.

hth,
b

btw,
The pre-flash of the S 70, if it indeed could not be turned off, would possibly negate the ability to fully utilize the SS 200 in conjunction with the orange colored series Ikelite optical sensor (discontinued?) which, as Maarten suggests, would force the flash to fire on every trigger event.

hth,
b

 

[RonFrank]

If the S70 has a pre-flash (I know the S80 does), the SS200 will not work with your camera, as it will fire at the pre-flash.

mart

FYI, one can eliminate the preflash on the S70 by shooting in manual mode. No exposure info determined by a preflash = no need for a preflash.

I'm betting this is true of the S80 as well.

 

[RonFrank]

btw,
The pre-flash of the S 70, if it indeed could not be turned off, would possibly negate the ability to fully utilize the SS 200 in conjunction with the orange colored series Ikelite optical sensor (discontinued?) which, as Maarten suggests, would force the flash to fire on every trigger event.

hth,
b

Your suggestions are most helpful, and I appreciate the PM even if the info is potentially speculation.

One question. I don't follow the above statement. The preflash on the S70 is eliminated in manual mode. But why would that negate the ability to utilize the 200 in conjunction with the old Ikelite Optical sensor? The only trigger event would be the ONE flash from the S70 per shot?

 

[bobf]

Ron,

Prior to posting I did a check of Flash features of the S 70, cross referencing on dpreview, imaging-resource, and steves-digicams. None of those sites specifically mentioned the capability of totally disabling the preflash (as they do in other reviews), although they did make mention of controlling the output manually, offering the options of 1/3, 2/3, or full dump. This power control characteristic is in line with other reviews listed on their sites that state slave signal option availability. That's why I included the statement:

.....if it indeed could not be turned off

If you can disable the preflash, I'd first confirm the possibility with Ike and then go out and search ebay for an orange slave sensor. I've seen them listed there before. I assume that if you can program the S 70 to fire a single pulse of light in sync with the shutter event, then the older generation orange colored sensor (no longer listed on the Ikelite site) would be an option to monitor the onboard flash and trigger the SS200.

 

[RonFrank]

I will need to test and verify the ability to turn off the preflash. I assume that if it works with a standard slave, then it is off. I have read that the preflash is disabled in manual mode (which would make sense, but not be necessary for Canon to do), but I have not tried this.

I'll do some tests when I feel like digging out my slaves, and see how they work. Boy, this seems like such a simple problem, and the fact that so many flashes ignore preflash and have slaves indicate that the problem is hardly difficult for the manufactures. I guess that the UW world just has not created enough demand for Ikelite to move quiclky with this type of flash. This flash was puchased in 2005 new, so it's hardly OLD, but seems to be from the Nikonos TTL, and film days which I was aware of.

I sent off an email to determine if an update was a potential solution. That would certainly solve a few issues, and add iTTL which would be worthwhile. However I did manage to shoot many hundreds of Weddings back in the day with a Hassy, and full manual strobes, so I think I can handle on TTL UW!

If the solution to use this with the S70 becomees too expensive, well, I'll just spend the $200 and a Sunpac GFlash or maybe a bit more on the Sea, and Sea, and put this unit aside for the day when I can get a DSLR UW.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[RonFrank]

I have just confirmed that the S70 flash in manual mode does in fact eliminate the preflash.

This is what I did. I attached a slave to my SB800. I set the camera to manual, and the shutter to 1/125, and the aperture to f8. I did a shot with the flash on low without the external strobe. The image was so underexposed it was almost just a black screen with a few spikes on the left of the histogram.

I then set the flash to aperture priority at f8, and pointed it at the area I'd been shooting. The flash fired (which proves nothing), however the image is now exposed properly. So I did another test, I set the flash down and took a photo of that. The image shows the flash firing, and as expected the head has a few blown highlights.

Now for another test, the preflash test. I set the camera at aperture priority, and set the flash to underexpose by two stops. The resulting image was rather dark and dismal. Then I turned on the externally slaved flash, and fired. The flash did in fact fire, however there was no change in the resulting output of the image.

This tells me that yes, Manual mode eliminates preflash (makes a LOT of sense), and that I can unfortunately NOT shoot in A mode and eliminate the preflash... bummer!!

But this is good news. Now I just need some kinda slave sensor to use this stobe!!