Questions concerning Backplates.

[dumpsterDiver]

---------- Post added March 29th, 2015 at 08:17 AM ----------





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Do you remove your reg after the dive? It takes less time to remove a DSS singles wing from the plate than it does to remove the typical Din Reg…...


I'm guess you don't dive doubles much. After pretty much "every" outing dives using doubles are burdened with the extraordinarily difficult and time consuming task of breaking down their ring into 1) Plate and Harness, 2) Wing 3) Cylinders.

One wonders *where* they find the time and energy……….

Tobin

No, to be honest i stopped diving doubles before a BP/W was invented, now with a single 149 cu-ft tank, I can get into all the trouble I need.

As for DIN, no I don't use them either.

I much prefer to have the BC or BP/w assembled into one piece that does not move or shift or require adjustment when assembling in rough seas on a small boat. I would NOT want to disassemble one EXTRA piece of equipment every single day if i could avoid it. I already have too much gear to mess with.

Why don't you fix the plates so they don't damage the Wings? Why no zipper?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'm guess you don't dive doubles much. After pretty much "every" outing dives using doubles are burdened with the extraordinarily difficult and time consuming task of breaking down their ring into 1) Plate and Harness, 2) Wing 3) Cylinders.

One wonders *where* they find the time and energy……….

Tobin

Actually, all joking aside, I do know a guy who didn't like to rinse gear and left a set of doubles unrinsed from his last dive set up with regs, tanks, wing, and plate in his garage on a wheel dolly for months. Just like he left a wetsuit and jacket BC once unrinsed in a dive bag for months until he unzipped to bag to find quite an odoriferous surprise.
They are out there, just sayin'.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Actually, all joking aside, I do know a guy who didn't like to rinse gear and left a set of doubles unrinsed from his last dive set up with regs, tanks, wing, and plate in his garage on a wheel dolly for months. Just like he left a wetsuit and jacket BC once unrinsed in a dive bag for months until he unzipped to bag to find quite an odoriferous surprise.
They are out there, just sayin'.

Are you advocating such a practice?

Tobin

 

[danvolker]

I'm sure Eric is just offering up an entertaining tangent. NOT something any intelligent diver would ever see as defensible behavior.
Sandra and I used to dive on a boat off boynton, that had a couple diving on it as regulars...and this couple did not rinse their gear per se....they would scoop up their gear, and leave it in a interior quad part of their house with no roof, where the gear would get rained on, and rinsed in this manner.
Suffice to say, whenever we dove with them in a "group" we would be in, I'd be ready with long hose, just in case.....In point of fact, the only gear failures I ever saw for them, were inflators that would start blowing underwater, and then either the guy, or the girl, would just unhook the inflator, and use it orally for the rest of the dive....
Just goes to show that people can get by for years, even doing really stupid things

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Are you advocating such a practice?

Tobin

Oh god no!
Like Dan said, it's just entertainment factor.
I'm just saying, don't put it past some people do be like this.

The guy with the doubles was an entertaining back story anyway. It's been long enough that all those guys in the group got out of diving long ago.
There were four guys in their big badass "tech" group. They tried to get me in with them but I looked at the dick swing contests they would have and said "No thanks!"
So they're diving the Monastery trench one day in Monterey CA going to 175' or 200' something like that on 25% (no HE) and "unrinsed" doubles guy gets totally completely narced out of his gourd and freaks. So one of the other guys takes him up to like 150' or something and sends him on his way to do the rest of his deco. Then the guy who sends ""unrinsed" guy up goes back down to rejoin his buddies and leaves freaked out diver alone to do his stops.
Anyway, "freaked out" diver manages to get to the surface OK, and when he gets home he swears himself never to do another tech dive and leaves his doubles set up complete because he doesn't want anything to do with them ever again. I think he sold his Halcyon plate/wing/harness/Apeks regs/SPG, (totally complete rig) for $1000.
Yes, there used to be those kind of CF clown acts back then and I imagine still are around in places.
And obviously no, they were not GUE trained.

 

[cwoco]

Wading back into this:

Okay, so Tobin has explained some reasons why a horseshoe may be better than a donut (pontoon shape) - not something I haven't found out via reading older threads.

Why then, don't have 2 OPV's? Other than the small chance of leakage from the 2nd OPV (since DSS OPV's are known to be rock solid).
Yes, if we plan ahead, it's not necessary. But **** happens, people do (mildly) silly things.

As I mentioned, NOT in a horizontal trim position, but when you start from a vertical position that is sometimes assumed when diving walls. Tobin only ever addresses the diver in the perfect horizontal trim.

I really don't believe it is rare to trap air on the right side on a wall dive.
Start from vertical, facing the wall
-> hey! there's something cool 10m down and 3m to my left!
-> roll to my left till I'm nearly upside down, fin gently down
-> air trapped in right side!
-> woosh! unexpected upward current as is rather typical on wall dives
-> dilemma between finning down or going vertical to vent from inflator (if right side OPV was available, I could do both at the same time)
-> to avoid this, I should have moved downwards while remaining head-up at the beginning, which I think is pretty counter-intuitive and honestly, inconvenient - facing where I am moving reduces my chances of bashing into things growing off the wall.

The example above may also occur when you simply swim on your side along the way (horizontal, but completely on your left side), after starting out vertical -> the air pools at the top of your wing, then rolls to your right side. It's really not that hard to do on a wall dive. I can imagine that in a cave/cavern/penetrative wreck dive, there will be situations when you are forced to go vertical, then roll left, as well. And in such a case, you might not have the option of rolling back to vertical to manage your air bubble.

Again, I'm not doubting the greatness of a horseshoe with single OPV when in horizontal trim. I'm also not comparing horseshoes to donuts (which is where the discussion always migrates to, so please let's not continue down that path). I'm asking why others like Zeagle have double OPV's, while DSS does not, even though OPV's are a strength of theirs, and there is genuine usefulness.

On another note, this thread also taught me that I actually have a thin-walled DSS wing, because mine has the opaque inner bladder rather than a black one. I bought it new but at a clearance sale on my LDS, so I suppose it has been sitting around for many years. I guess I should be more wary of punctures then.

 

[danvolker]

Wading back into this:

Okay, so Tobin has explained some reasons why a horseshoe may be better than a donut (pontoon shape) - not something I haven't found out via reading older threads.

Why then, don't have 2 OPV's? Other than the small chance of leakage from the 2nd OPV (since DSS OPV's are known to be rock solid).
Yes, if we plan ahead, it's not necessary. But **** happens, people do (mildly) silly things.

As I mentioned, NOT in a horizontal trim position, but when you start from a vertical position that is sometimes assumed when diving walls. Tobin only ever addresses the diver in the perfect horizontal trim.

I really don't believe it is rare to trap air on the right side on a wall dive.
Start from vertical, facing the wall
-> hey! there's something cool 10m down and 3m to my left!
-> roll to my left till I'm nearly upside down, fin gently down
-> air trapped in right side!
-> woosh! unexpected upward current as is rather typical on wall dives
-> dilemma between finning down or going vertical to vent from inflator (if right side OPV was available, I could do both at the same time)
-> to avoid this, I should have moved downwards while remaining head-up at the beginning, which I think is pretty counter-intuitive and honestly, inconvenient - facing where I am moving reduces my chances of bashing into things growing off the wall.

The example above may also occur when you simply swim on your side along the way (horizontal, but completely on your left side), after starting out vertical -> the air pools at the top of your wing, then rolls to your right side. It's really not that hard to do on a wall dive. I can imagine that in a cave/cavern/penetrative wreck dive, there will be situations when you are forced to go vertical, then roll left, as well. And in such a case, you might not have the option of rolling back to vertical to manage your air bubble.

Again, I'm not doubting the greatness of a horseshoe with single OPV when in horizontal trim. I'm also not comparing horseshoes to donuts (which is where the discussion always migrates to, so please let's not continue down that path). I'm asking why others like Zeagle have double OPV's, while DSS does not, even though OPV's are a strength of theirs, and there is genuine usefulness.

On another note, this thread also taught me that I actually have a thin-walled DSS wing, because mine has the opaque inner bladder rather than a black one. I bought it new but at a clearance sale on my LDS, so I suppose it has been sitting around for many years. I guess I should be more wary of punctures then.

OK, I have to say, there are too many divers today that think that a BC ( bp/wing) is their "up-down elevator"....this is not the case...if you do this, you need to get wired to an electric dog collar and get shocked every time you use the BC this way....So you see something below you and off to the side. You should be neutral from using your bc or wing correctly, or, maybe negative if you were involved in a descent just prior to seeing the sight you wanted to get to..... Your FINS are what get you down to the sight 10 feet or 30 feet deeper , and off to the side--you should be swimming there....If you don't like to swim----- BUY a scooter......but the Wing or BC is the WRONG tool for this example. And I'm sorry, even if you had mistakenly added air to your wing, anyone with even average propulsive skills should easily power down with fins against a 5 pound positive bc flotation. Sure you should have dumped it, but getting to the objective trumps means swimming to it, and if you can ge the wing or bc to help, all the better.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Why then, don't have 2 OPV's? Other than the small chance of leakage from the 2nd OPV (since DSS OPV's are known to be rock solid).
Yes, if we plan ahead, it's not necessary. But **** happens, people do (mildly) silly things.

Because with a little experience you won't need two.

*Every* additional piece of gear you add provides *another* potential failure point, however slight *you* may think that is.

Let's say you have a nuclear sub with a single hatch vs another with two hatches. Both designed and built with the best that money can buy. Which sub has a greater chance of suffering a failure?

It's also about muscle memory. There are reasons you haven't considered for using the left hand for buoyancy control.

Your right hand is the hand you use to donate your primary reg to an Out of Gas Team mate. If I'm about to inhale seawater I'd prefer my Team mate not be fussing with their buoyancy with the same hand I need him to use to shove a working reg into my mouth.


Then there are scooters........

A large part of the DIR philosophy is to start with a foundation and build on that as your training and goals advance, not to start with a set of skills that have to be scraped every time you add a piece of gear. Long Hose, can light, drysuit, argon bottle, deco bottle, stage bottle(s) scooter(s) are all additive to the foundation, not bulldoze and start over.

Want to be "that guy"? Show up for the gear lecture the first night of your first tech class with a wing festooned with multiple dumps.

Tobin

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Your muscles don't actually have the ability to store memory, your brain does.
Sorry, couldn't resist being a smart ass.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

This whole stupid thread is exhibit A in why I will dive my crappy, patched-up Pioneer 27 until it literally disintegrates upon inflation.