People who get tips in their line of work understand tipping very well, people who don't get tipped in their line of work, try to understand why should I tip you so much, nobody tips me?
Question Re: Tipping DM's
- Thread starter harpua
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SCUBAJENNIFER
Contributor
oly5050user:
I never asked what they were tipping, that's their business. But judging from the looks I got...it wasn't $200. It's funny I actully felt I should have tipped more for the level of service. If there would have been a way for me to get more money, I would have.
Missdirected
Contributor
fftopic: slightlyLOL, years ago I was visiting a friend in Cornwall, England. She owns a cafe in town and is open until about noon daily. Since I had to wait for her to finish in the cafe anyway, I helped out while there. Usually tips were dumped from the jar at the end of the week and divided. Well since the jar was full at the end of my first day working we dumped the jar. There was about $15 in there! Jilly/my friend about laughed her socks off. She believes it was because people felt bad for me and/or I was the entertainment. Reason being; I kept asking if people would like cream or sugar (with their tea, oops)! How American is that. I didn't even realize I had been doing it. Anyway, clearly there they do not count on tips.
A number of years ago, I was coaching a youth soccer team in the Holland Cup in Amsterdam. All the teams were quartered in a school building. I got up during the middle of the night once and ran into the staff having a few libations. They invited me to join them, and we ended up having a very nice and long conversation, and tipping customs was part of it.
They could not understand it. That is where I heard the "Pay me once, then pay me again" quote I used earlier. They said they were used to a system where employees were paid by the management, and the customer was not expected to provide anything extra. If you wanted to reward exceptional service, that was your business, but it was not expected. They could not understand a system where it is expected and considered a part of the bill.
If you have a system where that is actually happening, then that is fine. The trouble comes when we have a system where tipping is considered actually a part of the empoyees regular pay, not something additional, as it is in America. I know dive boats in Florida where the dive master does not get a dime in pay. If there are no tips, the DM goes home empty handed. If the DM has a boat load of people from a culture that does not include tips as a part of employee pay, then that DM is in trouble.
They could not understand it. That is where I heard the "Pay me once, then pay me again" quote I used earlier. They said they were used to a system where employees were paid by the management, and the customer was not expected to provide anything extra. If you wanted to reward exceptional service, that was your business, but it was not expected. They could not understand a system where it is expected and considered a part of the bill.
If you have a system where that is actually happening, then that is fine. The trouble comes when we have a system where tipping is considered actually a part of the empoyees regular pay, not something additional, as it is in America. I know dive boats in Florida where the dive master does not get a dime in pay. If there are no tips, the DM goes home empty handed. If the DM has a boat load of people from a culture that does not include tips as a part of employee pay, then that DM is in trouble.
Missdirected
Contributor
boulderjohn:
As I said this was MANY years ago. I also learned, like you, more about tipping while there. It is not customary to leave a tip. Buying the barkeep a pint is more the norm. Now in London it is a bit different but in other parts of England, yes there are other areas, they may think you have gone mad if you leave a tip.
This is slightly off topic, but I thought I'd add a comment on what I consider the absurdity of restaurant tips. I was recently among a group of ten people eating together at a restaurant that featured family style service. That means they put a stack of plates on the table and served the food in big platters that we passed around. The wine bottles were similarly placed on the table, and we served ourselves. Not much work for the server, comparatively.
We decided to order a more expensive wine than would normally be called for on such an occasion, and we, being quite merry that night, ordered a lot of it. We ended up with quite a large bill, with most of it, by far, being the wine.
We followed a procedure that I am sure you have all used, whereby everyone tossed in as much cash as they thought was their share, and we ended up with enough for a 17% tip.
After the waitress picked up the bill, she returned and told us that she didn't think 17% was enough. She said for a large party, we should tip 20%. (There was no restaurant policy on this.)
The irony is that if we had ordered the same amount of a less expensive wine and given her 20%, she would have gotten a much smaller tip, but she would have been happy. If we had been less merry and ordered less of a cheaper wine, the amount of service she performed would have been nearly identical, but with 20% she would have gotten maybe half of the tip we gave her--and she would have been happy.
We decided to order a more expensive wine than would normally be called for on such an occasion, and we, being quite merry that night, ordered a lot of it. We ended up with quite a large bill, with most of it, by far, being the wine.
We followed a procedure that I am sure you have all used, whereby everyone tossed in as much cash as they thought was their share, and we ended up with enough for a 17% tip.
After the waitress picked up the bill, she returned and told us that she didn't think 17% was enough. She said for a large party, we should tip 20%. (There was no restaurant policy on this.)
The irony is that if we had ordered the same amount of a less expensive wine and given her 20%, she would have gotten a much smaller tip, but she would have been happy. If we had been less merry and ordered less of a cheaper wine, the amount of service she performed would have been nearly identical, but with 20% she would have gotten maybe half of the tip we gave her--and she would have been happy.
Diver Dennis
Contributor
Did you mention this to the manager? Wow, I'd be a little upset too.
The points you guys are making are exactly why I think that dive operators should not be shy and let their customers know if gratuities are not included. Yeah, there will always be people who don't tip but I do think that there are lots of non or crappy tippers who honestly don't realize what's customary.
And on the liveaboard comment earlier, I did say I've never been on one. I went to Cayman Diving Lodge once or twice a year (before Ivan wiped it out) and it was a small dive resort where the price included all meals and snacks, up to 3 tanks a day and your room. We always tipped about 15% for the week (which was $1400-1800 pp, depending on the season). If we did any courses we'd tip the instructor individually. They had a box with envelopes in the office and a nicely worded explanation about tipping. If you left one envelope it would be split between the dive, kitchen and housekeeping according to a predetermined formula. If you wanted to tip any staff member seperately you could put their tip in a seperate envelope and in that case, they'd be excluded from your main gratuity. I just figured that at a regular hotel we'd be tipping for every meal and also tipping whomever we dived with and maybe the hotel housekeeping too. Wouldn't a liveaboard work similarly since it includes diving, room and food? If that's not how they work I hope I find out before I go on one.
And on the liveaboard comment earlier, I did say I've never been on one. I went to Cayman Diving Lodge once or twice a year (before Ivan wiped it out) and it was a small dive resort where the price included all meals and snacks, up to 3 tanks a day and your room. We always tipped about 15% for the week (which was $1400-1800 pp, depending on the season). If we did any courses we'd tip the instructor individually. They had a box with envelopes in the office and a nicely worded explanation about tipping. If you left one envelope it would be split between the dive, kitchen and housekeeping according to a predetermined formula. If you wanted to tip any staff member seperately you could put their tip in a seperate envelope and in that case, they'd be excluded from your main gratuity. I just figured that at a regular hotel we'd be tipping for every meal and also tipping whomever we dived with and maybe the hotel housekeeping too. Wouldn't a liveaboard work similarly since it includes diving, room and food? If that's not how they work I hope I find out before I go on one.
. Just kidding!!!
I always try to put on a show to set an example for the test of the boat by letting them see how much Im tipping. I don't know that it works but I try to get the starving crews a little extra anyway.
I once cornered two euro kinda guys who had been a pain in the butt the whole trip on the dock and made sure they watched me stuff a $20 in the tip jar then stood in there way so they would get the idea. They about ran off the dock so they wouldn't have to tip!
I once cornered two euro kinda guys who had been a pain in the butt the whole trip on the dock and made sure they watched me stuff a $20 in the tip jar then stood in there way so they would get the idea. They about ran off the dock so they wouldn't have to tip!
