Question on use of diver down flag

[chepar]

In our state, it is required that all diver groups whether by boat or by shore use a diver down flag.

However, I have noticed in certain dive sites that almost no one uses them. There is a particular shore diving site that is extremely popular for check out OW dives, as well as those tour operator type dives. With the steady amount of traffic going in and out of the water, you would think there was a convention going on 60 feet below, but you usually only see one flag out there, sometimes at the most 2. If each group used a flag as required, there should be at any given time at least 5 floating out there. There is no boat/surface traffic in this location, and most groups descend in the same general area.

Is this common practice - that you know someone else will have a flag, so no sense in dragging yours out?

While I know that there is little chance that when you come out of the water (at least at that site), a policeman will be standing there, ready to give you a citation because your group didn't have a flag - I was wondering as to other people's adherence to the use of dive flag rules.

Secondly, I was also wondering - for those who regularly use their dive flag, has there ever been a time when you came up to the surface and found your flag gone? While I would hate to think that someone would take a flag/buoy set up that didn't belong to them , if someone was of that mindset, what could you do? I mean, you're off somewhere 60 feet below sightseeing.

Sorry if thess are dumb newbie questions, but they came to mind as I was shopping around for a dive flag/buoy setup. I've seen them from about $40-$50, and it would bum me out if I came up and it was gone.

 

[Butch103]

Hey I had some bozo try to take mine while I was swimming with it. I was down about 20 ft and pulling it with me ..........I always have a flag with me......

 

[njdiver1]

New Jersey General Diving Regulations

General Diving Regulations - From the New Jersey Register, April 18, 1994 13:82-3.17
Diving and Swimming
(a) General provisions with respect to diving and swimming are as follows:

1. Underwater diving with or without an underwater apparatus is permitted in all navigable waters in New Jersey unless otherwise prohibited in this section.
2. Any person while diving shall mark his or her position with a buoyed flag approved by the New Jersey Boat Regulation Commission: i. Such flag shall be displayed so that it is visible all around the horizon from a buoy, float, boat or other floating object; ii. Such flag shall be a minimum of 14 inches by 16 inches, shall be rigid to enhance visibility and shall be a red background with a white diagonal stripe running from one corner to the other.
3. No person shall operate a vessel within 50 feet of the buoyed flag.
4. No person shall display a flag at times other than when diving is in progress.
5. No person shall swim or dive in a narrow, confined or improved channel or in a marked fairway, under a bridge, or impede, obstruct or interfere with passage of watercraft therein.
6. No diver shall surface more than 25 feet from the buoyed flag except in an emergency.


Copied from the New Jersey Council of Diving Clubs website:

http://www.scubanj.org/diverules.html

 

[The Chairman]

to that of NJ... but it requires the DDF only in navigable waterways. Springs and spring runs that are closed to boat traffic do not require a DDF. However, a diver must remain within 50 ft of -any- flag, so the situation you described could happen here if we had similar conditions. I have yet to have my flag tampered with, but if it was, I would be quite soar. Too many PWCs flying around to be safe without it.

 

[Greg G.]

The type of flag most divers use in Floriduh is the kind that just have a float with a small lead weight and some line attached to it that you tow with you. The other type with the large float that are anchored in one spot are used mostly by instructors w/classes. I always used the former when I was living/diving down south, although I hated it and thought it was a pain in the ass. I have heard of flags getting pulled up by ignoramus boaters, but it's rare. And now that I'm back home in the NW doing some REAL diving, I don't need no stinkin' flag!

 

[jmsdiver]

I think that all 50 states require a Diver Down Flag in some capacity.

• The diver’s flag must measure at least 15 inches horizontally and 12 inches vertically. Both sides must have a red-colored background bisected diagonally by a three-inch wide white
  stripe. There is also a blue and white diver’s flag authorized under the federal rules of the road.
• No more than four divers shall dive under one flag.
• Divers must remain within 50 feet (measured horizontally) of the warning flag.
• If a group of divers is using a contained area, the perimeter of the area must be marked. The area must be outside the normal area of navigation. These markings must consist of the official diver’s flag and must be placed around the perimeter of the diving area at intervals of not more than 150 feet.
• Do not place a diver’s flag where it will obstruct navigation.
• The diver’s flag may be displayed on a watercraft or float or be anchored to the bottom. The top of the flag must be at least 30
  inches above the surface, however.
• Boats not involved with the diving operation must remain 150 feet away from a flag.
• Persons who dive at any time from sunset to sunrise must carry a diver’s light visible when above the water for a distance of 150 feet.

Quoted from MN DNR "MN Boating Guide" http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/information_and_education/water_safety/boatingguide2001.pdf

Unfortunately, many boaters and personal water craft operators are unaware of the law; seems they don't need any special licensing course to operate a personal water craft, thus I have found that on the busier lakes the flag is used as a slolam (sp?) course. I use a flag from Innovative Scuba attached to a jump reel. Works well. Tend to tie it off if I know I'll exit in the same spot that I entered and check out the site without dragging it. I believe that the law is pretty hard to enforce as there is a shortage on law enforcement officers, but there's always that chance, so why take it??

 

[Uncle Pug]

When flown from an anchored boat the dive flag means:
"Come steal our stuff....we can't do nothin about it."

When flown from a live boat the dive flag means:
"What flag...I didn't see no stinking flag."

When pulled through the water by a diver the flag means:
"Hey...check this out!"

When floating in a fixed location the dive flag means:
"Fish here...with downriggers."

 

[Hawk]

I have one that I pull along with me, but I'm not really sure it is a good idea. In Oregon you are required to have one, but boaters have no restrictions on how far they have to stay away from it. Makes one think why even have it? More times than not it simply attracts the idiots that don't know what they are doing.





Later, Hawk.

 

[Strick]

I've seen some idiot on a WaterJet cycle running circles and stunts around one a few months ago. The divers had to exit from a distance. When they as well as many others yelled at the dude, he promply gave the internationally known one fingered salute and hauled @$$. Idiots...that just don't care.

 

[Rick L]

Hi I hate pulling a dive flag here!(massachussetts)
I have had two stolen right out of my hand this year!!
By lobstermen some target them and the cops dont care!
I am working on a flag I can let up when im coming to the surface!
Rick L