Question for those that ice dive

[Aqua-Andy]

I've done a few ice dives last year from shore then going under the ice, basically using cavern techniques. The group and I that I dive with are all TDI cavern and adv. wreck certified. So I was in our local dive shop the other day (the shop I have taken all my training through) and they were all exited about doing an ice dive this winter. So I asked how it was going to be run? Just inquiring if it was going to be run as a recreational dive or if the divers are trained in overhead environments will be allowed to do it as a tech dive? I just about got my head chewed off for even suggesting that I wanted to go under the ice with out being tethered to a dive master on the surface.
So the question is how are people doing there ice dives. I personally would rather be responsible for my self and not be tethered to the surface, we would still run a continuous guide line to the surface. And if people are wondering why we just don't do our own ice dive? We do actually like diving with the folks at the shop.

 

[rjack321]

The biggest question is: if you are off the line in a silt out are you going to be able to run a lost line drill and is there any current pushing you further away from the line/hole? Are there even any tie-offs on the bottom or will you have to bring stakes?

Honestly with only a cavern cert, I think this might be a bit bold depending on conditions. I have only been ice diving a couple times but its nothing like wreck diving (no hallways to orient on etc)

 

[Aqua-Andy]

Their is no current and plenty of rocks and branches to tie off to and run a lost line drill. It is actually where we do most of our skills practice.

 

[nadwidny]

I do an ice dive the same as a cave dive. But then again I have full cave training, not just cavern.

 

[shoredivr]

There was a fatality up here a couple of years ago IIRC where an inflator freeze up combined with a number of other things resulted in an uncontrolled ascent and apparent embolism. That dive was carried out by two quite competent technical divers using cave techniques in a river during an ice dive, for what it's worth.

The lesson I took from much discussion on a local board was to disconnect my inflator hose when ice diving or diving in water colder than 35F, or air temperatures at or below freezing.

 

[rjack321]

There was a fatality up here a couple of years ago IIRC where an inflator freeze up combined with a number of other things resulted in an uncontrolled ascent and apparent embolism. That dive was carried out by two quite competent technical divers using cave techniques in a river during an ice dive, for what it's worth.

The lesson I took from much discussion on a local board was to disconnect my inflator hose when ice diving or diving in water colder than 35F, or air temperatures at or below freezing.

When planning a dive you always need to guard against the feelings that, "you are trained and thus can handle it."

That particular group of divers have quit doing those dives because its not worth it anymore, the gear is pushed too close to the edge under the river ice, and they can dive that wreck in the summer anyway.

 

[nadwidny]

There was a fatality up here a couple of years ago IIRC where an inflator freeze up combined with a number of other things resulted in an uncontrolled ascent and apparent embolism. That dive was carried out by two quite competent technical divers using cave techniques in a river during an ice dive, for what it's worth.

The fact they were using cave techniques had nothing to do with the Doug's death.

The lesson I took from much discussion on a local board was to disconnect my inflator hose when ice diving or diving in water colder than 35F, or air temperatures at or below freezing.

Doug's buddy Kevin did a wonderful job of posting the details almost immediately after the accident so that others could learn from what went wrong and adapt their techniques to avoid the same situation. I wish others had his courage.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

A couple of thoughts.

1. The progression from caver to basic to full cave is essentially:

Cavern: learning line techniques in the light zone with the skills needed to exit on the line over a limited distance of 200' or less in a siltout.

Basic Cave: Expanding on line techniqes to utilize naviagaion on a main line with no jumps, gaps or navigatioanl decisions over what is still a limited distance based on very conservative gas planning to limit penetration and increase the reserve available to deal with any problems and decrease the distance needed to exit.

Full cave: complex navigation, gas management potentially as far as thirds, etc.

In that regard, doing an ice dive is not all that different than doing a cavern dive if the pentration distance is similar, as it is still in the light zone. The critical differences are going to be related to the colder water temps and elevated risk of a freezeflow, gas loss or unintended inflation of suit or wing. Another risk is cold hands and a greater potential to drop a reel and lose the line - so plan accordingly.

As far as a silt out and lost line drill, I've zeen some caverns where I would not want to do a lost line drill in a silt out, so except for the caveat about cold hands, the differences are minimal.

2. Personally, I have been on traditional ice dives where they will have two divers in the water and two tender, both moving around on the ice holding unsecured lines. That makes me nervous as a tender slipping, falling and dropping the line, could leave me without a line. My preference for traditional ice diving is one diver in the water with one tender working a secured line, and a standby diver ready to go with a separate tender working a slightly longer secured line.

But to be honest, I feel far more comfortable doing ice dives with cave techniques.

 

[ucfdiver]

As far as a silt out and lost line drill, I've zeen some caverns where I would not want to do a lost line drill in a silt out, so except for the caveat about cold hands, the differences are minimal.

The only lost line drill I would do in a cavern is swim towards the light and find the start of it in open water.

Just curious, which caverns would you hate to do a lost line in?

 

[rjack321]

Just curious, which caverns would you hate to do a lost line in?

Any cavern which is silted out thank you. I would hate to being doing a lost line drill "for real" just about anywhere.

Carwash, Jailhouse, Kim Ha are 3 which come to mind.