Question about depths/deep dives

[texanlovestotravel]

I am about 20 dives in (over 18 months and a couple of dive trips) and am Open Water certified by PADI.

I just got back from a trip where my dive shop was more than willing to put me on deep dives regardless of whether I had only the Open Water vs. Advanced open water - although I am a relatively comfortable diver and did 2 deep dives (125 feet and 113 feet) that week with no problems at all but I also refused to do an advanced dive that I felt was too dangerous/too advanced for me personally (but he would have easily taken me) - it was a deep dive with a long and pitch black hole to make it through - me with no light source.

My previous experience with other PADI shops has been they have enforced the 60 feet rule for open water certified (give or take 15 feet...) rather than me 'self policing'. I am just curious how often operations are less strict because frankly, if others on my dive boat hadn't clued me in on the one dive I declined to do because I thought it was beyond me, I would have done that dive without knowing I might be literally in over my head. Just curious what others experiences are like - does the shop monitor or does it become the diver's responsibility or both.

 

[sskasser]

Welcome, and congratulations for making a great decision!

Yes, it is ALWAYS your responsibility as a trained diver to make sure the dive you're planning is within your skill/comfort level. You'll find a wide variance on whether shops/dive ops limit your dives based on experience/certification. Most will verify you are certified to dive, but after that, it is up to you to determine your limits.

You're on the right path. Go slow, dive often, and always take responsibility for your own dive plan.

Happy, and safe, diving!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Read this. It will tell you what should be going through your head now.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

 

[ivobj]

Congrats for your decision and the responsability you have shown.

I have to add that IMO, even agreeing with sskasser that the diver has to take the decision of not going, it's a very irresponsible attitude from the shop's side to even offer to an OW diver without light source to do a deep, overhead dive!! Even if this dive was 10 ft deep, if it is an overhead environment, is even more then AOW level, this is overhead or intro to cave (the name varies, but the certification to dive without direct vertical access to surface in a dark environment is above AOW).

 

[ligersandtions]

The 60 foot max depth is more a "suggestion" than a "rule". If a shop or charter is going to a place with a 130 foot max depth and you are an OW diver, you have the option of making the dive. Is it a good idea? Probably not.

You need to dive within YOUR limits....if you are not comfortable down to 100 feet, then don't let anyone pressure you into going down there. If you are diving an Al80, are a new diver with a somewhat higher air consumption rate, and are even a little apprehensive, you also probably don't have enough gas to get down and back safely.

You may or may not have heard of gas management. If not, check out THIS article (and even if you have, you may want to review it because it's full of great information).

Basically, what it comes down to is deciding if you are comfortable making the dive, if you are on the proper mix (i.e. you are within your MOD), and if you have enough gas to safely make the dive. If any one of these answers is no, you should sit it out or plan to dive a different profile.

I'm glad to hear you made the right decision. If only they taught all this important stuff in OW classes more often....then you wouldn't be faced with wondering if what you did was right or what they were doing is right.

 

[RJP]

...me with no light source.

Not speaking directly to the situation at hand - which you handled correctly - but there's no reason not to carry a light on every single dive. Small back up lights are cheap, easy to keep stowed out of the way, and incredibly useful to look under ledges and in holes, etc on even the most brightly lit dives.

 

[dkktsunami]

Good choice. You have better judgement than your dive shop. Common sense and being responsible for yourself will serve you well in the long run.

 

[WavyGravy]

Just curious what others experiences are like - does the shop monitor or does it become the diver's responsibility or both.

I think most people have probably experienced both ends of the spectrum. I've done deep dives with an OW cert (albeit warm easy dives) up to 110'. On the other hand, the dive shop I use up here in Tobermory not only asks your cert level before booking you for certain wrecks, but also requires some deep, cold water experience as well.

 

[DevonDiver]

The limitations on depths are only recommendations by the diving agencies - although those recommendations are entirely reasonable and based on good logic.

Those recommendations not only state a maximum depth, but also that the conditions must be the same or better than those the diver has experienced before.

It is important to note that some insurance companies utilize those depth limitations when assessing accident/healthcare claims. I know of at least one case of a diver's claim being refused because they got DCI on a dive where they exceeded their 'certification' depth.

It is the perogative of any individual dive center or dive professional to impose their own maximum depth limit (or any other limitation) on a diving customer. This is their right as a business...and they are never obligated to provide any service for a customer that they do not desire to do so.

As a part of their duties, every dive professional must conduct a risk assessment and plan their diving activities based on that. Different individuals, in different locations, under different conditions, may form different conclusions from their risk assessments.

As JimLap's excellent post "who is responsible for what?" illustrates..... the overall responsibility for your own safety lies with the individual diver concerned. Everyone is educated on the 'recommendations' during their diving training...and expected to make responsible decisions for their own safety. The fact that some operators deem a dive suitable for divers (in general) does not mean that the dive may be suitable for YOU as an individual.

 

[Colliam7]

I just got back from a trip where my dive shop was more than willing to put me on deep dives regardless of whether I had only the Open Water vs. Advanced open water ... My previous experience with other PADI shops has been they have enforced the 60 feet rule for open water certified (give or take 15 feet...) rather than me 'self policing'. I am just curious how often operations are less strict ... does the shop monitor or does it become the diver's responsibility or both.

I think there is considerable variability among operators, not just among shops coordinating a trip, or operating a charter boat, but among individual boat captains as well. Most operations encourage the diver to consider whether they are ready for a dive or not ('I see you have AOW, but you indicate your deepest dive so far is 80 ft. This is a 130ft dive. Are you comfortable with that? Do you want someone with more experience to buddy up with you?'), but I only infrequently see hard 'requirement bars' in place. My then 19 y.o. son did an ocean dive to 138 feet on his 12th dive, with only OW certification. I had the experience with a shop / charter operation in the Keys being very meticulous in documenting that divers planning to do the Spiegel Grove had AOW certification, and two recent dives to >80 ft., yet an instructor working with the shop being willing to take my then 15 y.o. daughter on a Grove dive, the day after he completed her OW certification. (She declined.) Several weeks ago, three of us - 2 instructors and an AI, all trimix certified - were doing a dive on the Oriskany, to the props, and the DM for the boat (a Master Instructor) sat down with us beforehand to check our C cards, review our experience on the O, review our dive plan, ask about our deco gases, and about our cylinder count (7 bottles for 6 divers). Then, he hung out at 135 feet as we descended past him, just to be sure we were OK, and on time. I commended the operation afterward - that is the kind of oversight I would like to see from all operations. It wasn't a matter of 'You can do this.' or 'You can't do this.', or 'You're not qualified to do this.' Rather it was prudent assessment of the appropriateness of the dive for the diver. As the responses point out, it is ultimately the diver's responsibility to determine whether or not to do a particular dive. A good operation, at least in my opinion, wants to facilitate safe diving.