Question about a situation

[captain]

Man Captain, Us Louisiana Boys are taking an ass kicking today

No problem, I know what works and what doesn't and how to fix it when it doesn't work.

 

[redacted]

Many of regulator parts will be unusable or actually dangerous to reuse if installed and then disassembled and reinstalled. Some parts will HAVE to be replaced if they were disassembled even if they were brand new.

When one of my regs needs cleaning, I tear it down, clean and inspect, lube, and reassemble without replacing any parts. Never had any problems. With my BP piston regs with a knife edge piston, I avoid disturbing the seat but everything else is fair game for disassembly and cleaning if needed.

I suspect your statement is based on manufacturer recommendations rather than failure experience. But I'd be interested in hearing why your believe parts will become unusable or dangerous.

 

[Stoo]

One that is entirely avoidable by having a redundant air source or a buddy, but I've often wondered about this anyways.

You realize that you just answered your question before you finished asking it? Solo means redundancy. Period. I know there are some here that will disagree, but they won't convince me, unless on a very shallow dive.

As for breathing air from a BC, this is quite doable and used to be pretty common in advanced training. There were also a number of BCs that were equipped with bottles and a rudimentary second stage on the inflator.... sort of an early version of the AIR II. I still own a Fenzy vest... It had about 45 lbs of lift and a 6 cf bottle to inflate the vest fully and quickly. I used to practice emergency ascents using this and it was quite simple. I haven't used that vest in decades but it's still in great shape....

As for the possibility of a lung infection I will say only this: You can cure a lung infection with antibiotics. You can't cure dead.

As someone on here once wrote: "I'd suck a fart out of the ass of a skunk if it meant getting back to the surface alive!"...

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

This is a very bad advice indeed. Many of regulator parts will be unusable or actually dangerous to reuse if installed and then disassembled and reinstalled. Some parts will HAVE to be replaced if they were disassembled even if they were brand new.

Sorry, that is a VERY overstated concern. There are certain parts that where it is advised not to reuse the "old" part.... nylock nuts in 2nd stages, diaphragms in some 1st stages, dynamic o-rings in some first stages, retaining rings (snap rings), sintered filter... but this "advice" is 50% based on not reusing parts that may have been in service for long periods of time, and 50% on the fact that the manufacturer does not trust their own "factory trained technicians" to actually have the mechanical ability to remove and install parts without over-stressing them..

There is more harm to do what you said to do than using the regulator as is after it comes back from the repair center. If you are in doubt about the quality or the "correctness" of the repair job, please ask the dive shop to give you a full tank and test everything BEFORE you leave the shop or go diving. I actually insisted that my customers do this when picking up their serviced equipment before leaving the store. You can also do your own visual inspection of the equipment including hoses, etc. before you dive. Again, do NOT disassemble your regulator on your own.

I do not think captain was advising someone to overhaul their regulator without obtaining the knowledge to do so. He was advising solo divers to obtain this knowledge.

It is a sad FACT that the majority of regulator malfunctions, including catastrophic failures occur immediately after annual servicing. Just spend some time browsing the boards for reports of regulator failures on this board, or ask any large group of divers, and you'll see this is a common theme, and points to lack of care or mechanical competence on the part of the "trained technician".

There is also a question of the special tools and torque wrenches that have to be used to assembled regulator parts. Trying to disassemble or assemble the regulator without these specific tool will also lead to potential dangerous damage to the regulator. One such danger is a cracked first stage body or yoke because somebody applied way too much "elbow" power when assembling the first stage and did not use the proper size torque wrench.

Please also note that the "solo" diver has no access to all of the frequent special bulletins or advisories legitimate repair centers receive from their manufacturers for special instructions on how to address some issues with their respective products.

I have had no problem obtaining the few "special" tools required to service the three different brands of regulators my family dives with. Service manuals and bulletins are readily available on the internet with a couple mouse clicks. Again, not every diver will have the interest to learn how to service their own regulators.... and not every "legitimate repair center" employs "technicians" that should be allowed anywhere near a repair bench.

Your are 100% correct in stating that regulators can be damaged by using too much force on certain fittings. Example: Scubapro had a problem with its technicians over-tightening turrent bolts and yoke retaining bolts. Scubapro had to re-design components that were not inherently defective simply because their "technicians" could not be trusted to use a torque wrench during annual services.... members of this board have described catastrophic failures immediately after service due to improper assembly technique by the dive shop repair tech .

I apologize for the rant, but assuming that "factory certified" = "qualified" and "not factory trained = unqualified" is incorrect.

"Don't work on your own regulators until you've learned how to do so" is great advice. You can obtain the knowledge to work on your own regulators from sources other than a weekend repair course. Servicing your own regulators is not difficult if you have just a little mechanical ability, are able to pay attention to detail, and are willing to invest some time in learning how to do it.

I agree with captian: The effort to learn how to repair your own gear is 100% worthwhile for every diver.

Best wishes.

 

[knowone]

You know I recon far more emphasis has gotta be squeezed into peoples heads about who works on your regs in what kinda environment and the ability to know whats doin even if you're not doin it.

Even the bloke that knows needs that time behind the locked door without interruptions and perform the checking and double checking.
Then you can go and do whatever you want or others require of you..

The functionality of my stuff is very important to me, maybe some others, and I know every milimetre of it and probably it should be that way since it pretty much hasn't seen the inside of a shop since it left.

The thing is I think I've caught Net disease and as I often get fills with bc and regs all hooked up I think I might add a string of garlic to ward off any gear staph that may be hanging around in the shop.

I feel a Dejavu coming on.

That blue is a nice touch.

 

[DaleC]

Hey, back to that hard and fast rule of thirds for a moment.

I don't adhere to that phylosophy as it is a general rule and does not take into consideration the dive I am actually doing. I also have no clue how one would do a simple shore dive using it. If I have a 3000psi cylinder and it takes me about 2-300 psi to ascend from a 50-60' NDL dive how do I avoid winding up on shore with 1700psi post dive? That's the problem with general rules of thumb.

Instead, I follow rock bottom calculations for my anticipated max depth. This is the calculated amount of gas I will need to ascend safely from that depth, solving a problem and doing my stops. If I need extra volume for penetration etc... that goes into the calculation. When diving with twins I hit rock bottom on the first cylinder, switch and hit rock bottom on the second, then begin ascent.

If I dive a pony, it's volume should be at least equal to my rock bottom calculation for the depth of the dive.

Pretty simple, it works and you are actually thinking about your dive.

For shallow dives I would not breath off my BC as I don't have one. I don't plan to go OOA either as I'm pretty good about occasionally checking my J valve position

 

[fsa]

Just an aside - yes, I do clean my bladders carefully. As it happens, yes, I do also enjoy talking like a duck by breathing what's left after a dive. I do the same thing for my kids, much to the embarrassment of the teenagers, at restaurants by breathing same from balloons. Sure wish they put some O2 in there though, makes me dizzy. Onto the issue of failures, though. Beyond the best laid plans, rules of thirds and the rest. I believe in the rule of thirds and dive by the rule of thirds. I am a cave diver and always will be - and I consider any decompression dive to be effectively an "overhead environment" in that the surface is not directly accessible to me. Frankly I find cave deco much more relaxed as confined spaces do not bother me in the least.

Anyway. As I understand the question here, what does one do when things go off the rails? When the crossover valve doesn't isolate, when the blowout valves don't hold, when nothing goes by plan? Is there any realistic recourse outside the tank, valve and regulator system? Regardless of the best intentions, when one participates long enough in a hazardous sport things will go wrong. You cannot plan for every emergency. Ask any skydiver. Nobody escapes broken bones no matter how good they are. Eventually it will happen. Two of my cave instructors died while cave diving, and they were both very good at it. Statistics are inexorable. You cannot escape the inevitable - do it long enough and often enough and accidents will happen to you too.

I think he poses a good question. I would suggest a couple other items for consideration. In addition to thinking about the BC and it's supply, it might be worthwhile to consider the small bailout bottles that can be easily strapped to the vest and used for those critical breaths during an emergency. USCG chopper pilots carry them in their flight suits, for example. Gets one past those first moments of crisis. Very small and unobtrusive. Others carry a separate "pony bottle" with an independent regulator system. Nice, and good for a longer run of gas but larger to manage and has balance issues that must be managed.

So, these are my musings on the subject.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

If I dive a pony, it's volume should be at least equal to my rock bottom calculation for the depth of the dive.....

Why?

Would not the pony be calculated for rock bottom for 1 diver and the primary rock bottom be calculated for 2 divers?

 

[jago]

Because you can estimate than the probability of 2 simultaneous issues (free-flow on the main tank and air-demand by the buddy) is very small.

 

[sylpha]

When one of my regs needs cleaning, I tear it down, clean and inspect, lube, and reassemble without replacing any parts. Never had any problems. With my BP piston regs with a knife edge piston, I avoid disturbing the seat but everything else is fair game for disassembly and cleaning if needed.

I suspect your statement is based on manufacturer recommendations rather than failure experience. But I'd be interested in hearing why your believe parts will become unusable or dangerous.

boeing were having problems with their aircraft reported, when they assessed the situation they worked out that things were being serviced too often & the human interference was causing them to go wrong. they reasessed the servicing recommendations and the problems went away.

we also noticed that people who had their regs serviced most often had most problems.