Purchasing an Oxygen kit and where to get O2

[Thalassamania]

The non-rebreather mask cam deliver concentrations as high as 80 to 90 percent when properly hooked up and at the proper flow rate.

Source: Master the EMT Basic Certification Exam, 3rd edition

 

[hollywood703]

I dont have any Test links, read about it in most emergency medicine manuals/textbooks. As far as Medical grade compared to non-medical greade( welding?) would be purity filters. You would definately want medical grade oxygen for Emergency use.

Yes in an Ambulance we have larger Tanks on board, but still have portable tanks to enter houses etc. I use to have a flow chart showing how long each cylinder size and rate would last. I can tell you at 15 liters per minute a standard D size tank will last 20 minutes. even with a demand valve, you arent going to gain much. A Boat Operation should be Carrying atleast an E size bottle, or several smaller bottles that would Cover the total trip time plus a bit of extra. A demand valve in my mind more prone to the possibility of failure, more moving parts.....a non demand valve is open and nothing is moving....nothing to fail.....Like i said if it was that good ambulances and ER's would be using them, if more time is needed more bottles, or a larger bottle should be used.

As stated above a non-rebreather is as close to 100% as you are going to get unless you are Forcing air into an unconscious person via a Bag Valve mask.

 

[hollywood703]

also, good summaritan law doesnt apply to Oxygen delivery as it is considered an invasive medical action. CPR, and basic First aid is all that is covered. If you cause complications due to inferior than medical grade O2, you could realistically be held liable for any harm caused by the impurities. I would want to be up to par on all counts. We fill all our personal bottles from inspected tanks, and are covered via our medical control for such Oxygen delivery, but are not covered under good summaritan outside of CPR or basic first Aid and only when we are off duty. If you are Paid to perform EMS procedures, you are not covered under good summaritan. I am not familiar with Dan's O2 classification to what is/is not covered under good summaritan.

 

[Thalassamania]

also, good summaritan law doesnt apply to Oxygen delivery as it is considered an invasive medical action. CPR, and basic First aid is all that is covered. If you cause complications due to inferior than medical grade O2, you could realistically be held liable for any harm caused by the impurities. I would want to be up to par on all counts. We fill all our personal bottles from inspected tanks, and are covered via our medical control for such Oxygen delivery, but are not covered under good summaritan outside of CPR or basic first Aid and only when we are off duty. If you are Paid to perform EMS procedures, you are not covered under good summaritan. I am not familiar with Dan's O2 classification to what is/is not covered under good summaritan.

This is all pure foolishness. It was over 15 years ago that I offered my facility for Jim Corey to run the first public oxygen administration course. How many people have been sued, for any reason, involving the administration of oxygen to a diving accident victim? None!

 

[Papa Steve]

Wanted to get your thoughts on this. This came from the website:
Portable Oxygen - Emergency Oxygen Tanks - E/Pax - E/Pax DS Emergency Oxygen


Does the E/Pax Emergency Oxygen System require a doctor's prescription?

NO. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the regulating government agency for oxygen, requires a prescription for medical oxygen, but has EXEMPTED this requirement for emergency applications since 1972. For other medical uses, federal law restricts oxygen to be used by or on the order of a doctor.​

 

[Thalassamania]

The only reason for the prescription requirement is so that chronic lungers can get reimbursement.

 

[DaFireMedic]

You could buy something like this. Sure, the regulator is only 8 lpm instead of 15-25 lpm, but you could always replace the reg at a later time.

BRAND NEW E SIZE ALUMINUM OXYGEN TANK+ REGULATOR+MASK - (eBay item 230181376656 end time Oct-20-07 16:41:28 PDT)

You would want to replace the regulator right away. These regulators are more for chronic type illnesses such as emphysema which require low flow oxygen. BVM's require a minimum of 15 lpm and non-rebreather masks require a minimum of 10 lpm. It is imperitive that the reservoirs fill when using these devices and you often need more the minimum flow to accomplish this.

If you're bent, would you argue the differences between welding and medical grade O2 before sucking the bottle dry

Nobody would, nor would they argue that they are not getting enough flow if that was the only system available, but the time to prepare is beforehand so that this doesn't happen. You really want to have the proper system before an emergency. The welding grade may be O.K., but medical grade is required to meet a higher standard with regards to filling and handling in order to avoid contaminants. People have died or suffered complications in hospitals due to cylinders not being filled in accordance with standards, resulting in oxygen that was not medical grade. Medical grade oxygen is also required to meet a purity standard set by the FDA. Welding oxygen, while it may meet that standard, is not required to and depending on where you obtain it, it may not be safe.

 

[hollywood703]

This is all pure foolishness. It was over 15 years ago that I offered my facility for Jim Corey to run the first public oxygen administration course. How many people have been sued, for any reason, involving the administration of oxygen to a diving accident victim? None!

Good summaritan covers more than diving injuries...I do not know if anyone has ever been sued in a diving related o2 administration, however, in Michigan Good Samaritan Law only applies to CPR and Basic First Aid. Oxygen administration is considered a Licensed or Prescription requirement which no longer covers it under good Summaritan. Like I said I dont know Dan's O2 class and what it would/would not cover however, here in Michigan O2 delivery is not covered under good samaritan, Dan might have their own coverage for people who took the course. Are you going to be sued? who knows! is there a chance you could be sued and not covered by good summaritan in Michigan....Yes.

(Just looked up the statute, it covers Basic First Aid, CPR and AED usage in Michigan..It also does not cover any one who has a duty to act..ex on duty Police Fire Ems...etc)..please look up your own States Good Samaritan Laws to know what is covered.

 

[Thalassamania]

Good summaritan covers more than diving injuries...I do not know if anyone has ever been sued in a diving related o2 administration, however, in Michigan Good Samaritan Law only applies to CPR and Basic First Aid. Oxygen administration is considered a Licensed or Prescription requirement which no longer covers it under good Summaritan. Like I said I dont know Dan's O2 class and what it would/would not cover however, here in Michigan O2 delivery is not covered under good samaritan, Dan might have their own coverage for people who took the course. Are you going to be sued? who knows! is there a chance you could be sued and not covered by good summaritan in Michigan....Yes.

(Just looked up the statute, it covers Basic First Aid, CPR and AED usage in Michigan..It also does not cover any one who has a duty to act..ex on duty Police Fire Ems...etc)..please look up your own States Good Samaritan Laws to know what is covered.

This is the same stupid argument that I first heard before you were born. To the best of my knowledge there's never been such a suit. I suggest that at this stage raising the issue at this late date is nothing more than boogeymanism, since the standard of practice in the community is the administration of the highest _ppO₂ possible as quickly as possible. Give it a rest.

And please, humor me ... spell it "Samaritan" with a capital "S."

 

[**Scuba_Steve**]

I agree;

Everyone is arguing over this unecessarily.

I was taught to ask the person to if they would like to take the oxygen, advising them that you are trained to administer oxygen and that this may help their condition until help arrives and allow them to hold the mask. Once given O2 they should immediately be sent to an emergency room for an evaluation as well as calling DAN.

If they are unconsious you start CPR, and use the bag if you can (It will be a tough challenge to hold the bag with one person) otherwise just CPR until help arrives.

Any amount given should help the situation. Obviously give the 15 liters per minute with the highest concentration method possible for as long as possible. Bag, Mask, demand valve etc.