PSAI Narcosis Management course - 73m on air

[boulderjohn]

This argument seems quite pointless. The fact is most divers operating at or below 100ft are using air so it's obvious most accidents below 100 will be on air.

A lot of divers going below 100 feet will not be using air. For example, the UTD agency does not allow ENDs below 100. If you are going deeper, you are going to be using a helium mix--25/25 in their case. I believe GUE has a similar rule, but I can't swear to it.

TDI offers an extended range course which does allow deep air, but all their course materials tell the divers to determine what they believe to be a safe END. The language in the Advanced Trimix course suggests an END of 100 feet.

I know a number of divers personally who adhere to the 100 foot limit for END.

The argument was not just that "most" accidents below that depth have ENDs below 100, the arguments was that nearly all accidents have ENDs below 100.

 

[wedivebc]

You don't really believe UTD represents a majority of divers out there do you?
My comment was not about the 0.1% of divers you are referring to.
Add to that the fact that most preople diving with helium below 100ft have advanced training and likely a higher level of self discipline it is easy to see why almost no accidents below 100ft occur on trimix. But t conclude that just because most accidents below 100ft are without the benefit of helium that narcosis is the primary cause is rather a stretch.

A lot of divers going below 100 feet will not be using air. For example, the UTD agency does not allow ENDs below 100. If you are going deeper, you are going to be using a helium mix--25/25 in their case. I believe GUE has a similar rule, but I can't swear to it.

TDI offers an extended range course which does allow deep air, but all their course materials tell the divers to determine what they believe to be a safe END. The language in the Advanced Trimix course suggests an END of 100 feet.

I know a number of divers personally who adhere to the 100 foot limit for END.

The argument was not just that "most" accidents below that depth have ENDs below 100, the arguments was that nearly all accidents have ENDs below 100.

 

[AfterDark]

Well I'm set I was certified by NASDS where I was taught to use the USN tables for air and the 1.47 PPO2 at depth among ,many other things. They went belly up long ago so in the words of ALGORE "....there is no controlling legal authority". Do you guys report each other to GUE and UTD if you see your buddy go past 100' on air? Or do report yoursleves if you do it? Just wondering how they know? Maybe it's the guilty look on your face when they next see you? GEZZzzzz.

 

[Paladin]

I read a news report recently that said the world is running out of helium. What happens then?

The way I look at it, if a man wants to go deep on air and understands the risks, it's his choice. Would I do it? No, but that is my choice.

 

[boulderjohn]

Well I'm set I was certified by NASDS ... They went belly up long ago ...

Actually they did not go belly up at all; in fact, it is quite the opposite.

The NASDS owner merged the agency with SSI and became part of the SSI leadership. Not long after that he purchased SSI. I attended a week long workshop he conducted in which he explained the whole deal. He has imported all NASDS philosophies and ideas into the organization, including copying old NASDS graphics for use with SSI. It could easily be argued that NASDS just changed its name to SSI and became much bigger.

Do you guys report each other to GUE and UTD if you see your buddy go past 100' on air? Or do report yoursleves if you do it?

There is an old joke that explains it.

How do you keep a Baptist from drinking all your beer while you're fishing? Bring another Baptist.

The DIR concepts are pretty rigid, and people who buy into the system really do buy into the system. They don't violate the norms because they believe in the norms. And if they are tempted--well diving with a DIR buddy helps keep things in line.

---------- Post Merged at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:01 PM ----------

I read a news report recently that said the world is running out of helium. What happens then?

we use neon. It would probably be a better choice anyway if it weren't so expensive. And think of all the money we would save on dive lights.

 

[Centrals]

Post was at 02:01 PM ----------

we use neon. It would probably be a better choice anyway if it weren't so expensive. And think of all the money we would save on dive lights.

But Ne is so much heavier than He. How about H2?

 

[GrimSleeper]

But Ne is so much heavier than He. How about H2?

Hydrogen has a slightly annoying tendency to explode if the mix contains more than 4% O2, and apparently is also hallucinogenic. Which I guess means that in the future we'll all either stay above 30m, do all our diving tripping at enormous depths, or go back to deep air for anything in between...

 

[Paladin]

According to this web site:

Exotic diving gases

Neon off gasses slowly and requires extended deco time. It kinda looks like deep air might become the standard again, in a few decades or less.

 

[Bombay High]

I read a news report recently that said the world is running out of helium. What happens then?

I think the Oil Companies that depend on us going deep to keep the flow going, will ensure that a supply of Helium is found. We use it in such vast quantities that they have got to maintain regular supplies. A 6 man team in saturation breathing a 4/96 or 2/98 Heliox mix compressed to 15 to 30 or more atmospheres is a LOT of Helium. Even with scrubber and reclaim being used (my UltraJewel claims 90% reclaim efficiency) it is huge quantities being consumed. Thats one 6 man sat team. Multiply that by all of them deployed in all the various oil patches, and its a hell of a lot more than you can imagine.

If He does genuinely run dry, you can bet your last buck that the commercial dive industry will find an alternative.

The recreational divers will call it Voodoo Gas for about 20 years, call it reckless and dangerous and refer to us as "guinea pigs", then cautiously try it, and then condemn all amongst them who do not use it as being reckless and dangerous ...

So it goes

 

[AfterDark]

Actually they did not go belly up at all; in fact, it is quite the opposite.

The NASDS owner merged the agency with SSI and became part of the SSI leadership. Not long after that he purchased SSI. I attended a week long workshop he conducted in which he explained the whole deal. He has imported all NASDS philosophies and ideas into the organization, including copying old NASDS graphics for use with SSI. It could easily be argued that NASDS just changed its name to SSI and became much bigger.

There is an old joke that explains it.

How do you keep a Baptist from drinking all your beer while you're fishing? Bring another Baptist.

Funny

The DIR concepts are pretty rigid, and people who buy into the system really do buy into the system. They don't violate the norms because they believe in the norms. And if they are tempted--well diving with a DIR buddy helps keep things in line.

Don't let BATFE get wind of that, sounds like a cult. I'm diving the U853 in a few hours, on air all the way to the bottom 130fsw. If I make it back alive for the umpteth time as I have for the last 40 years I'll post a short dive report. If not I'll see ya'll in A&I.