Prison sentences in chili case

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From what I've heard of the two, they are just plain old bad people. The fact that other criminals get lighter sentences than they deserve does not make this one unduly harsh. Plus, I suspect part of the sentence was as a result of the fact that this wasn't just a crime, but also a conspiracy. Conspiracies are particularly bad because they are harder to abandon. When one person sets out to commit a crime, he or she can get cold feet and abandon the plan. With several people, it is much harder to chicken out. I'm just fine with paying for their upkeep for the whole sentence.
 
Fish_Whisperer:
On the other hand, Ken Lay only got 7 years. The more I think about it, the more unjust it seems.

On the other hand 7 years might be a LIFE sentence for LAY...

Everyone seems to forget that this was not a simple robbery...the sales and trust of the Wendys corporation was shaken seriously...


Paul in VT
 
The effects of the Enron scandal were very far reaching. My state retirement system for example was heavily invested in Enron stock and consequently I sufferred some monetary loss. Given that it's another 14 years before I can take even early retirement at 55, it's no big deal, but many current or near future retirees across the nation lost big time. Anyone who commits a crime of that magnitude deserves a lot more than a hand full of years. The magnitude of any one person's loss or suffering is a lot less than that of a murder victim, but the long term financial stress and reduced standard of living of thousands of victims should count for just as much when a sentence is handed down.

I agree the finger felony was severe and did result in substantial monetary loss for a lot of people but it still pales in comparison to the losses inflicted by many corporate criminals who get lighter sentences.

One thing I have been uncomfortable with since my first criminology class 20 years ago, is the fact that in many jurisdictions a pre-sentence report is done where factors such as community attachment, employment and family support are considered and persons with higher socio-economic status tend to score much better. That can have the effect of harsher sentences for poor people than for rich people. Restitution also comes into play as a white collar criminal may have the earning potential to actually make restitution whereas a blue collar criminal may not. Consequently a white collar criminal may be out sooner to enable them to go back to work while a blue collar criminal may serve a much longer sentence with the focus on retribution, not restitution.

In the long run, lenient sentencing of white collar criminals sends the message that that type of crime is less likely to be as severely punished and much of the deterrent effect is lost. The real threat of doing a full 20 years in a maximum security prison with Guido the killer pimp for a room mate would I think have more deterrent effect on executives than the threat of doing 18 to 24 months of a 5 to 7 year sentence in a minimum security "country club".
 
You also have to take into consideration in the PSI what the criminals mind set is. That has some of what they will give to the Judge. The PSI we do around here have soo much info for the Judge and the Attorneys to go over. Alot of them are novels and the recomendations all come from them. With the judicial system soo overcrowded if someone can pay there restitution they look more highly on that. But in prison only makeing 40 cents an hour it is going to be along time to pay those off. Plus if the person reoffends that doesnt look good either. These crimes have alot of public interest so they tend to be harder to decide what the sentanceing should be. Just be glad you dont have to decide these cases.
 
I cannot fathom why Lay only got 7 years. Perhaps the judge knows more than we do about the matter. Of course, given Lay's prior lifestyle, even a year or two would be as harsh as 10 years for someone with a harsher lifestyle. My inclination remains (subject to the fact I have no evidence before me) that Lay should have gotten forever.
 
Bruce, it should not matter what type of lifestyle anyone has. All people should stand equal before the law.
 
I agree saying less time in jail for someone from an affluent background is equal to more time in jail for someone who has had to struggle through life does not make much sense. In fact you could argue the opposite.

One commonality with most (non-psychotic, non-sociopathic) criminals, blue collar or white collar, is that they go through a series of justifications as to why it's ok for them to commit a crime.

Someone who has never needed anything in life should have less reason to steal than someone who has spent a significant portion of their life enduring the stress of wondering where the money for the next meal, rent payment or car repair is coming from. For an affluent criminal, the rationalizations involve a sense of entitlement driven by feelings of their obvious superiority in being rich - a hold over from the puritan work ethic and the develpment of a belief that poverty implies moral weakness - an attitude that still pervades social policy today. That sense of entitlement just masks pure greed or a desire for ever greater power.

In contrast a person coming from an impoverished background conceivably could have slightly more understandable and legitamate motives to steal with rationalizations based on economic stress, feeding the kids, etc, a sense of entitlement based on a life time of hardwork for little pay, lack of opportunity, viewing the crime as "victimless" if the target is a person of wealth or a corporation where the loss will not noticeably alter their lifestyle, etc.

Plus in my experience, some affluent offenders have an underlying attitude that the rules do not really apply to them - that they are in some way above the rest of us do to their status, achievement and success - again an outgrowth of the belief that morality is linked to economic success. In my opinion a light sentence does nothing to strip them of that sense of entitlement or superiority and makes them more likely to re-offend.

Earlier comments to the effect that the finger folks were not model citizens and that this was not a first offense is an argument that applies to most white collar criminals as well. White collar criminals are less often caught and like most criminals have a history of rationalization and a series of progressively larger offenses until they get caught. I'd argue Lay also probably committed along list of crimes before this one.
 
Well, given my extreme right wing stance on crime and punishment, it would probably be better if I made no comment.

Suffice it to say that I don't believe in the electric chair . . . I believe in electric bleachers!!!

the K
 
ATTENTION EVERYONE: Upon reviewing my prior post, I can only conclude I was going through a psychotic episode that impaired my reasoning and judgment. Perhaps the same thing happened to learned judge who gave Lay such a light sentence.
 
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