Primary Regulator with a Necklace?

[Soggy]

It needs to be detachable should you really want it to.

I disagree, vehemently, but do what you want. Frankly, I don't care what GUE has to say about it.

MHK's instructor-in-training tied it on for me, telling me that it is the method GUE is currently promoting. You may also wish to take a look at the necklaces Halcyon sells. So, are you sure it's not DIR?

No, I'm not sure...it says, "Thin enough to fit under your mouthpiece zip-tie". But, like I said, I don't care. It's a bad idea to have a removable necklace...defeats the whole purpose of having it rigged that way. You can disagree all you want, but the thing can come out much easier than when it is zip tied in.

 

[in_cavediver]

First, to the OP.

The problem you describe - fin kick etc knocking the primary out won't be solved with a necklace. Simply put, a properly adjusted necklace would allow the 2nd to come loose with a sharp pull, would also allow the 2nd to come loose with a fin kick. No soltion to the percieved problem.

Better option - take your octo, and bungee it with a necklace. Its still in the triangle and if you lose your primary, you KNOW where the octo is. Very few downsides to this config. This works with both long and short hoses and with the donate primary and donate octo methods. Now, for the downside, sometimes, when you stretch the sugical tubing or bungee just right, it will catch your hair and pull on it which hurts. (kinda small downside eh)

Lastly, for those looking for a means to secure your primary for entries exits - two options.

1) Add a bolt snap to the hose near the 2nd stage and clip it off.
2) Add a 'bungee clip' to stow it. (if someone know a better name for this, I'd be interested to know it)

For most cases, the simple bolt snap is preferred. If you need a 'releasable' holder, the 'bungee clip' is the answer.

To envision what I mean with 'bungee clip', simply take a standard bolt snap and double over a piece of surgical tubing through the closed eye. Cable tie the tubing to create a holder for the mothpiece like you would on the necklace. I use two for my sidemount harness. Its quick to insert and remove the 2nd before, during and after the dive.

 

[in_cavediver]

I disagree, vehemently, but do what you want. Frankly, I don't care what GUE has to say about it.

Soggy,

Here is one reason I feel its imperitive a bungeed backup be able to be pulled free. If I ever have to ditch my equipment, I want to make darn sure that even if I don't get the necklace off, the reg will pull free and I'll be seperated from my gear without getting pulled down by my neck.

That said, the necklace should hold it securely and it should take a fair amout of force to release it. I don't worry to much about the mouthpiece being ther as I know I can breath my regs without it. Depending on the 2nd, this may be a concern to others.

 

[Soggy]

Here is one reason I feel its imperitive a bungeed backup be able to be pulled free. If I ever have to ditch my equipment, I want to make darn sure that even if I don't get the necklace off, the reg will pull free and I'll be seperated from my gear without getting pulled down by my neck.

Ok. I think it's more important to optimize for the more likely situation. Ditching gear is not a particularly likely situation. Needing to switch to a backup in a hurry is.

 

[H2Andy]

ditto

chances of me having to ditch gear in a hurry are nil

chaces of me needing to get my backup in my mouth NOW are much, much higher

 

[in_cavediver]

Ok. I think it's more important to optimize for the more likely situation. Ditching gear is not a particularly likely situation. Needing to switch to a backup in a hurry is.

Depends, ditching gear happens on the surface to. Picture taking off a set of 104's on the tailgate of the truck, turning around to balance them and lay them down, then in the process, getting yanked over because you forgot the *#$# octo around you neck. Life threat - low. Ego threat - high.

Still, in all the dives I've done, only once did the octo pull free underwater. (and it's hose hooked in a tight location). Needless to say, even with a hood, gloves and drysuit, I felt it pulling loose and was able to deal with it. I actually pulled it free then, once untangled, re-inserted into the necklace. It was most definitely easier at that time to pull it free then to try to untangle it while still attached.

I just don't see the risk of 'losing it' on a dive. Its one of those academic questions much like that of failure modes on the isolator manifold. Sure, there might a possible failure mode but the likely hood just isn't great enough to offset benefits of a releaseable necklace.

 

[Rainer]

I just don't see the risk of 'losing it' on a dive. Its one of those academic questions much like that of failure modes on the isolator manifold. Sure, there might a possible failure mode but the likely hood just isn't great enough to offset benefits of a releaseable necklace.

This is the point I was trying to make. Even with the knot method, it just doesn't come free. This isn't "defeating the purpose" of using a bungeed backup as Soggy writes. It won't fall out. If it does (very unlikely!!!), you'll notice, and you'll take care of it. You seem to be worrying about problems that don't appear to exist. Either method seems QUITE reasonable.

 

[CompuDude]

I disagree, vehemently, but do what you want. Frankly, I don't care what GUE has to say about it.

No, I'm not sure...it says, "Thin enough to fit under your mouthpiece zip-tie". But, like I said, I don't care. It's a bad idea to have a removable necklace...defeats the whole purpose of having it rigged that way. You can disagree all you want, but the thing can come out much easier than when it is zip tied in.

Then we agree to disagree. You see it as a negative, I see it as a positive. Either way, we both go about our business and dive.

Just don't go claiming your method is DIR, and mine is not, because you're flat out wrong on that one. (the latter half, at least... I believe your method was indeed taught at some point, although I am not 100% positive on that.)

 

[Soggy]

Then we agree to disagree. You see it as a negative, I see it as a positive. Either way, we both go about our business and dive.

Yup, I see it not only as a negative, but a potentially fatal one. I used to rig mine like this, but it took only one falling out on the surface for me to realize it's a bad idea.

Just don't go claiming your method is DIR, and mine is not,

I didn't claim that. I told you that I didn't care if it was DIR or not. I do what is safe. Most of the time, it is in-line with DIR methodologies. Sometime's it's not. That doesn't bother me.

 

[all4scuba05]

It's amazing (or maybe it's not) that all this talk goes on and on all the time and yet some statements contradict themselves even when coming from the same person. It's been stated that the OOA diver wants the "known to be working reg" and will therefore rip THAT one from my mouth. It's also been stated that when he comes your way, the one in your mouth is the one you want him to use because he's in a panic and you want him to have the one that HE KNOWS is working so that he can calm down. Also that I want him to take my primary because my secondary might not work?

It's also been stated that if my primary gets kicked out of my mouth, I'm going to want a reg back in my mouth as soon as possible and therefore the need for a necklace. And yet it's stated that the "Questionable Backup" is the one I need to have on the necklace. (for some, the other's diver comes first:for me, I promised wife and kids that I come first)

I'm just going to say that not all your statements apply to all types of diving. There are exceptions to most of them. If I'm diving solo, why would I not want the primary on a necklace? There's no one there to rip it anyway?