Preparing for fundamentals / intro to tech

[BlueTrin]

I wish we had something like the BSAC system here in the US. GUE has been criticized as "clubby," but there are few options for those who like the idea of learning from mentors and participating in diving activities with people you know.

You don’t have dive clubs in your local shops?

Here many of the PADI/SSI/SDI shops provide a local club so you can meet like minded divers. They usually use this to sell trips or market their classes too.

Most of them offer membership for free or a very low cost (usually that’d give you access to their training pool)

One of my local SDI TDI instructor run a technical diving FB group so you can meet like minded divers for example.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You don’t have dive clubs in your local shops?

Here many of the PADI/SSI/SDI shops provide a local club so you can meet like minded divers. They usually use this to sell trips or market their classes too.

There are dive clubs in the US--don't get me wrong. But I believe most are not affiliated with a local shop. Shops sell trips, and dive clubs go on trips, but I don't recall seeing any affiliation between a local shop and a club (not that I pay attention to these things--I'm sure club/shop affiliations exist). Dive clubs are just not that prevalent in the US--relatively few and far between. What appeals to me about BSAC--of which I admittedly know not all that much--is that there is a unifying organization over all the local clubs, and there is a standard training progression (though apparently BSAC members can be trained through other agencies). Here in the US, clubs seem to like to do their own thing, and I'm not sure having a national umbrella organization would appeal to us individualistic Americans. Our individualism could be a reason why the very idea of joining a dive club is not that popular.

A club system makes a lot of sense for an island nation. Surrounded by centuries of wrecks. And cheap flights to the Red Sea!

 

[rddvet]

Well, that is a consideration. Even if you just look at fundies vs intro to tec. What I found is roughly 700 vs 300€. With 400€ of difference I can buy some equipment.

Not saying this in relation to a particular course:

The best money you will ever spend on "equipment" is equipping yourself with exceptional skills as early in your dive career as you can.
You can have the latest and greatest gear in the world, but it doesn't have any bearing on the quality of your diving skillset.

 

[Tracy]

There is no cheap technical diving. But it is a big difference if an advanced nitrox course costs 500, an normoxic trimix course 700, and a full trimix 1000, and intro to cave+full cave 1500 (together 3700 excluding gases, including certs) or it costs 750+75 for fundies, 1500+75 tech1, 2000+75 tech2, 1500+75 cave1, 2000 cave2 (8125, 75 for the cert, rest are courseprices). These are prices I hear around me for the courses, so it can differ a little bit from region to region. But this means gue costs way much more than other agencies. And it is true that not every diver can afford this. So how much money you can afford on becoming a technical diver absolutely plays a role in the choice which way you want to do.

I don't think you are comparing apples to apples unless you just have instructors teaching for free.
Who does an ANDP course for $500? It is a five day course.
It sounds like you are comparing a brand new instructor trying to get cert numbers to a GUE instructor who spent years getting to that point.
Budget constraints are a very real thing and I understand them, but comparing those courses on price alone is a silly way to do it.

 

[Wibble]

You can have the latest and greatest gear in the world, but it doesn't have any bearing on the quality of your diving skillset.

All the gear and no idea...

 

[berndo]

I don't think you are comparing apples to apples unless you just have instructors teaching for free.
Who does an ANDP course for $500? It is a five day course.
It sounds like you are comparing a brand new instructor trying to get cert numbers to a GUE instructor who spent years getting to that point.
Budget constraints are a very real thing and I understand them, but comparing those courses on price alone is a silly way to do it.

The price structure is different here. You can easily find a dude who's been diving ccr for 20 years that offers mod1 for under 1000 bucks (not sure I've even seen it more expensive that 1200 maybe). I think Germie is even lowballing the the GUE prices too... cave 1 is going to be closer to 3 grand than 2 grand with instructor expenses. The price difference might not be as big in the States or in Mx (these days), but here it is. In Mx, the normal price for cavern to full cave was around a 1000 bucks for an 8 day class. At the time, nobody called that cheap.

I don't think you can say and instructors 'spend years getting to the point' like in other jobs... they were doing their hobby in those years. In other jobs you have to really grind and go through sh!t to move up... I wouldn't put scuba trips in that category. This idea of a well paid scuba instructor (like is was dicussed in another thread) is kinda a new phenomenon.

 

[Germie]

I don't think you are comparing apples to apples unless you just have instructors teaching for free.
Who does an ANDP course for $500? It is a five day course.
It sounds like you are comparing a brand new instructor trying to get cert numbers to a GUE instructor who spent years getting to that point.
Budget constraints are a very real thing and I understand them, but comparing those courses on price alone is a silly way to do it.

I talk about Europe. And that are the prices here.
And it doesn't mean you get new instructors (but they also need to gain experience of course), it is the overall range.

 

[jborg]

Fundies for me was about 600 EUR, in Sweden, which is also the same price I got from another non-GUE instructor for an intro type class previously. (Neither instructor were anywhere near newbie status.) Given the time and prep involved, it's far from being any form of cash grab, imho.

 

[Tracy]

I talk about Europe. And that are the prices here.
And it doesn't mean you get new instructors (but they also need to gain experience of course), it is the overall range.

I can't imagine giving five days of my time for $500. I enjoy teaching, but I enjoy fun diving more. Teaching takes away from my fun diving. If it isn't profitable, I will just go diving with friends.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just don't understand it.

 

[Germie]

I understand, but I have looked at a website in my country, 425-500 for advanced nitrox. Advanced recreational trimix 650-750, normoxic trimix 650-800, full trimix 850-1000, nothing till full/technical cave 1200-1500.

But even in 2010-2011, Mexico was extremely expensive with cavediving. That was the reason I went to Thailand. I have talked to some people in Mexico and they only teach 7 months a year and the rest they take off as they have earned enough. That is also a choice you can make if you can find students. But this will not happen in Europe. Here most instructors have a normal job. It is impossible to find enough students to teach every week. Since corona, it all went down completely. I know instructors that haven't teach this year at all because there are no students. Even if you are a fundies instructor, you cannot make a live from just teaching fundies. You need to be able to teach more courses and even then it is hard. Some also teach for other agencies, some work in a divecenter, some own a divecenter, some do things like videography. But 100% teaching for 1 agency? That is really hard here.

The fundies course was here in 2011 750, excluding the 75 for the cert. I believe the price is still the same.

We can all agree that there is no cheap technical diving, be also everybody knows that not every diver can spent the same amount of money on courses or materials and probably on trips. If you cannot dive without guide anymore in Mexico, a lot of divecenters have to close, as a lot of people cannot spent that money on diving. Or don't want to. If all cave courses have to cost at least 2500 bucks, there will become more self trained cave divers. (and self trained agencies that are new founded and start teaching).
This also the truth.

The ts must look at what kind of buddies he has, because buddies can also tell or learn you things. He has to look about what he can and want to afford. And then can jump into what fits him.