Pre tech education

[KevinNM]

A large proportion of recreational divers in this area dive BP/W. At the shop where I trained the vast majority of single tank divers do. In fact we put all our OW students in BP/W.

The only OW diver I have seen with a BP/W at the LDS I train with is me. And I just got it. I saw half the dive leaders (pretty much all of whom were instructors) using them in Hawaii, and two other divers out of the hundred or so I dove with on that trip last month. So you have a pretty darn different shop than I'm used to. Which is cool, but very different.

 

[decompression]

RJ, I gotcha. Your previous post said you didn't understand how some people couldn't grasp single tank deco diving. I was therefore trying to explain why I feel this way. I enjoy the exchange of ideologies, no argument intended.
I don't care about agencies, I've been around long enough to have seen it all and be tired of it. Please don't take my inquires or points as agency specific, there is no need with me, you probably know I'm certified by many and certified to teach by several.

Redundancy, once they are trained there is no instructor, free diving or not[emoji4]. So those options are the only ones. Again, so simple just to have another tank. Again, this leaves only deco bottle but if beyond MOD that leaves buddy. So much easier to have......another completely independent air source.

I will explain, training with a single vs doubles, yes all theory is the same, most skills are the same, however there is no repetitive, muscle memory drills on a single that will prepare them for later courses. When they go on they will then have to learn valve drills along with all the other skills increasing task loading. Better to keep it simpler and learn valve drills with only 1 deco bottle.
All my students and my shop are BP/W as well, the other places I've taught and dove around the world, it's still far from the norm.

I agree that I cannot see a circumstance that deco training on a single would be easier, simpler or more beneficial than giving them an extra tank.

For me, start with the end in mind.

But I'm glad others are able to read through this and make educated decisions.

Oh I just realized the real reason I won't teach deco in a single, singles make me look chunky.[emoji1]


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[kensuf]

Consider that every cave agency with a cavern course allow singles for their cavern and most even for their intro to cave courses, and in fact limit doubles diver's to 1/6th gas supply if they DO dive doubles. Would you say that TDI, NACD, NSS-CDS, IANTD, NAUI, PSAI and others "advocate" cave diving on a single tank? Have all of those agencies "lost credibility" in doing so?

NAUI does not allow single tanks in their Cave 1 course, which is the first of their cave classes. Minimum starting gas volume for any cave dive in Cave 1 is 144 cubic feet of gas. Penetrations are limited to 1/3rd and remaining within the NDL. Students are required to drop a safety bottle in the cavern.

 

[PfcAJ]

The fact that some agencies allow it does not make it a good idea.

 

[Omisson]

NAUI does not allow single tanks in their Cave 1 course, which is the first of their cave classes. Minimum starting gas volume for any cave dive in Cave 1 is 144 cubic feet of gas. Penetrations are limited to 1/3rd and remaining within the NDL. Students are required to drop a safety bottle in the cavern.

Is NAUI cave 1 - cavern or basic/Intro to cave?

 

[Hawkwood]

From NAUI's website:

[h=5]Cave Diver (Levels I & II)[/h]Does the thought of diving through an underwater cave intrigue you? Are you fascinated by the possibility of diving where few divers go? The NAUI Cave Diver Levels I and II courses build on skills and knowledge taught in the Cavern Diver course and develops the next level of skills and experience you need to be a NAUI certified Cave Diver Level I or II.

Upon successful completion of the NAUI Cave Diver Level I course, you are qualified to plan and execute limited-penetration, simple navigation, no-decompression cave dives to depths that do not exceed 100 fsw (30 msw).

You must be at least 18 years of age to enroll in the Cave Diver Level I course. You must also have completed the NAUI Introduction to Technical Diving course (or its equivalent), and have a minimum of 75 logged dives.

Note that a pre-requsite is an "Introduction to Technical Diving" course.

 

[Omisson]

The fact that some agencies allow it does not make it a good idea.

And because something isn't the preferred method doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

Many students considering advanced courses shouldn't need to invest huge sums of cash in an Intro course- they need to evaluate if it's right for them before spending the money and going down the Tec, cave, pro route.

Situational conditions dictate the considerations for a dive. Sac rate, time depth.... Single or doubles not withstanding - gas planning is required. That should reveal the needs of the dive.

If a cavern training dive can be done safely with depth, distance, and time considerations with a single tank, proper reg redundancy and a bail out - I think the safety considerations on air/gas management are taken care of.

---------- Post added January 22nd, 2015 at 11:54 AM ----------

From NAUI's website:

[h=5]Cave Diver (Levels I & II)[/h]Does the thought of diving through an underwater cave intrigue you? Are you fascinated by the possibility of diving where few divers go? The NAUI Cave Diver Levels I and II courses build on skills and knowledge taught in the Cavern Diver course and develops the next level of skills and experience you need to be a NAUI certified Cave Diver Level I or II.

Upon successful completion of the NAUI Cave Diver Level I course, you are qualified to plan and execute limited-penetration, simple navigation, no-decompression cave dives to depths that do not exceed 100 fsw (30 msw).

You must be at least 18 years of age to enroll in the Cave Diver Level I course. You must also have completed the NAUI Introduction to Technical Diving course (or its equivalent), and have a minimum of 75 logged dives.

Note that a pre-requsite is an "Introduction to Technical Diving" course.

Ok- so That's not cavern - it's Intro/Basic - and requires Intro to Tec as a prerequisite. That's why it's should be a doubles requirement. But that mirrors other agencies- doesn't Make sense.

For cavern- no such doubles requirement. I'm ok with that.

 

[kensuf]

Is NAUI cave 1 - cavern or basic/Intro to cave?

Neither. It's a completely different beast, more like Cavern + Intro + part of Apprentice. It assumes you have zero cave training, but come into the program with intro to tech and at least 75 dives.

IMHO -- it's a lot to chew on for some people. If they come in with the real pre-reqs then it can work, but it's not for everyone.

 

[TSandM]

NAUI's Cave 1 is very similar to GUE's Cave 1. Both expect that you will have technical-level open water skills before starting the class. This has ALWAYS made sense to me, because there is no need to have an overhead environment to learn good buoyancy, stability while task-loaded, and non-silting propulsion. Why waste time in an overhead class to teach people things they can learn in open water at home?

 

[PfcAJ]

Naui cave one allows dives to thirds (unlike gue) and jumps (unlike gue) and has a "safety bottle" placed in the cave (unlike gue).

I took naui cave 1 a number of years ago and I think it's a little aggressive for a new cave diver.