Pre-1989 AL tank exchange program

[Crewdog]

I had no idea there were than many failures, I am suprised that there isnt more data on the subject on the internet. that is high.

and as far as "Regarding your figure of six (catastrophic) failures," I didn't make that number up..thats what the DOT report said.

and like you and I said, your dive shop does the vip = they will fill it. A sensible aproach.

 

[Stu S.]

If we count the trade-in tank as worth $25, the deal is $160 if you get the new valve. Is that a good price?

 

[mike_s]

Why bother trading it in?

People buy the old 6351 tanks on Ebay all the time. You can easily sell your old tank there.

Now... this brings up a whole other delima... people selling tanks on ebay that can't be filled in most shops.

 

[Stu S.]

Why bother trading it in?

People buy the old 6351 tanks on Ebay all the time. You can easily sell your old tank there.

Now... this brings up a whole other delima... people selling tanks on ebay that can't be filled in most shops.

How many of you have been told "no"? We travel with four tanks, one is an oldie. Never had a problem. Always got a fill, nothing blew up. That is probably ten different locations. I heard somebody might not fill the old one in South Florida, but I went to a shop and they filled it right up. This seems like a ghost that I don't have to be scared of. Maybe a Scuba Board sticker on each tank is the passport to extra-special service. How about you other divers?

Happy diving!

 

[royalediver]

Regarding the (big number of) steel tanks that failed, show me a link to one steel tank failure where the tank was properly VIP'd and hydro'd.

Show me an aluminum tank that has failed when proprerly inspected and hydro'd.

The DOT report on catastrophicaly failed 6351 aluminum tanks stated that the cracks had been present for 7-9 years. That's at least one hydro and 7 VIP's. That is why the DOT raised the inspection level to include an Eddy current test.

Any tank can fail if not properly cared for and/or inspected .

From PSI's website:

Several of the recent aluminum cylinder ruptures have attracted considerable industry attention while the more than 24 steel cylinder ruptures over the years are forgotten. The prudent dive industry professional should be very cognizant that ALL high-pressure cylinders contain phenomenal energy and ALL should be given great care. Every ruptured cylinder had obvious damage whether it was a crack in the threads, damage from excessive heat, extensive corrosion or other abuses.

By the way I have spoken to many major hydro facilities around the U.S. and they have stated to me that more steel tanks fail hydro than aluminum plus they further state that the aluminum to steel hydro ratio is 10:1.

 

[mike_s]

How many of you have been told "no"? We travel with four tanks, one is an oldie. Never had a problem. Always got a fill, nothing blew up. That is probably ten different locations. I heard somebody might not fill the old one in South Florida, but I went to a shop and they filled it right up. This seems like a ghost that I don't have to be scared of. Maybe a Scuba Board sticker on each tank is the passport to extra-special service. How about you other divers?

Happy diving!

I've never been told no.... but I haven't owned any 6351 alloy tanks in years. All my tanks now are much newer...

But... I have seen signs on many doors of Florida dive shops saying they won't fill them.

My LDS will still fill them, but 90% of the tanks they fill that are 6351 they did the visual on since it's an "inland" shop.

In all reality, The sign is on the door of the Florida shops, but your average "tank monkey" I'm betting never bothers to check the visual sticker, much less the hydro date or alloy at least 85% of the time. So I'm betting you could still get them filled as long as they don't "Look old" by having J valves in them or something.

 

[Scared Silly]

While we are on the subject here is a link to Luxfer press release:
http://www.luxfercylinders.com/news/releases/20041012.shtml

Okay so here is my challenge to the dive stores that do not want fill pre 1986 and 6351 cylinders because they "think" they are "unsafe". If a customer comes in with said cylinder for a fill or inspection (whether is be for a visual or hydro) offer then the following deal:

1) sell a new Lufxer cylinder with the same volume at shop cost (wholesale price plus shipping from the mfg).
2) install the old value for free
3) free VIP
4) free fill
5) old cylinder is returned to the customer after having the cylinder's marking physically removed as well as the threads.

The cutomer can then sell the cylinder for scrap.

I bet no shop take the challenge.

BTW One of the new rules (and I will have to dig for this one) I believe from OSHA is that when filling cylinders only necessary personel may be in proximity and they must be filled in a contained area. I do not know the definition of a contained area but shops that have fill whips in the store are going to be running some new lines.

 

[Web Monkey]

1) a new cylinder at shop cost (wholesale price plus shipping from the mfg).
2) install the old value for free
3) free VIP
4) free fill
5) old cylinder is returned to the customer after having the cylinder's marking physically removed as well as the threads.

The cutomer can then sell the cylinder for scrap.

I bet no shop take the challenge.

And they shouldn't. It's a business, not a charity. If your tank fails, it's your problem.

Terry

 

[Scared Silly]

So instead you would rather piss a customer off and potentially lose their business. My suggestion above does not cost the shop anything except some time. Also there is huge diference between charity, taking a loss and doing things to keep your customer base.

BTW yesterday I walked into one of my local shops to have some hose gaurds put on some replacement hoses. They got one of the fancy tools that makes it much easier than DIY. The hoses I did not buy from them though the gaurds I did - years ago. I asked them what I owed them for their time they did it for free - little things like that go along ways.

 

[cerich]

what you are suggesting is pretty much what Mike was offering.

I'm amazed how many people thought he was pulling something, he sure wasn't.