PRAM Freeflow

[Nemrod]

I think this is why OSHA mandates nozzles that have side exits and flow volumes low enough that this type of accident can not occur.

For certain, the nozzle in my shop is of the OSHA approved variety.

I heard the story of the guy that injected grease under his skin from a high pressure grease gun. I don't recall the ending but I think is was pretty grim.

Oh, and don't spin up ball bearings with an air gun and let them fly across the floor.

Richard

The "side exits" are venturis. Take a nozzle sometime and put your fingers over the side, you will see the volume is reduced. My accident prone friend who air injected his arm had put a sealer tip on the nozzle to chase some shavings from under a structure. I did not see it happen, I, being a First Responder, showed up and being as I don't do blood or gross injuries, nearly fainted. He had a small cut in his arm, a scratch, that is where the air went in. He is going to be fine, a trip to the emergency room and all is good.

After diving a newly rebuilt regulator several times, I usually take the top can off and readjust IP, if I am trying to set it up on the "edge." Lately I have just been backing my RAMs down to about 135 to 145 and usually they are not so sensitive as to need the second adjustment.

N

 

[rstofer]

Here's what I think I know: I can easily adjust the IP. It is now set at just under 140 psi. The freeflow condition seems to be independent of IP but more below.

When the reg is freeflowing, if I lift on the Horseshoe, it stops. It seems as though one of two things are wrong: There is binding (lack of lubrication?) between the "Disk & Retainer" (part #29 on my diagram) and the "Seat Holder" (part #31) or the "Spring" (part #30) is wimpy.

If either of these eventualities should be realistic, I suppose the right answer is to remove the "Seat Holder" and take a look. I have the instructions but will be grateful for advice.

I notice that the repair manual suggests setting the IP for 100 psi. Am I going the wrong way? It was originally around 110 psi.

Richard

 

[Paladin]

It sounds like the second stage nut is a bit too tight.

Set the IP with a tank pressure of 500 PSI. Tighten the big first stage adjustment nut clockwise until it starts to free flow, then back it off (counterclockwise) until it stops, then 1/8 to 1/4 turn more. If you want to go by a gauge, then the IP should be around 145 PSI with a tank pressure of 500 PSI (the manual is WAY conservative). Tighten the second stage adjustment nut until it starts to freeflow, then back it off until it stops, then 1/8 to 1/4 turn more. Unless there is something wrong with the regulator, this should solve your problem.

The above is how Bryan at VDH told me to adjust an Aqua Master.

 

[rstofer]

Thanks!

I'll give it a try later today. I bought an IP gauge so I guess I prefer to use it.

I made something of a mistake above, this PRAM is built on a DAAM base. I don't think it makes a difference in the area where I am working but, if it does, let me know.

The neat thing about working on these regs is that VDH is just a UPS ride away.

Richard

 

[Slonda828]

The procedure listed above is for a DA Aquamaster, not a RAM. The two are different by design as far as first stage function. This is really an easy fix, and you should do it just like you would on a single hose reg. Here is exactly what I would do to fix your reg. BTW a PRAM can easily hold 145-150 of intermediate pressure, just ask Luis (he engineered it). It is a stunning piece of mechanical engineering.

Don't kill yourself, blah, blah, blah divers cannot take care of themselves without a certified 18 year old kid to service their gear.

Here is what you should do:

-Take off the top can (exhaust can)

-Hook the IP gauge up to the hookah port.

-Put the regulator on a tank (the pressure on a balanced reg does not matter at all). In fact, I would test it on a full tank just to make sure that balancing chamber is working correctly. This will not be a problem, because you got it from VDH. The point is, the tank pressure matters not.

-Observe the IP gauge as you SLOWLY charge the first stage by opening the tank valve.

-Watch the needle on the IP gauge swing. Does it snap to a stop? Does it keeping swinging upward? If it "locks up", then you are fine. If it creeps, then send it in for service. It probably does not creep. It should be between 135 and 150 PSI. VDH only uses the blue teflon conshelf seat, which is the one used in all modern, off the shelf Aqualung regulators of the series. It is bulletproof.

-If the IP is locked up and your regulator is freeflowing, then back off the second stage adjustment nut (the one over the horseshoe lever) while the regulator is charged (this makes it easier so that you do not just spin the seat inside the second stage. Back it off a few turns. It should stop freeflowing. Now, tighten the nut slowly again until it barely starts to piddle air, then back it off 1/4 turn.

-Put the diaphragm in properly, then put the top can on the reg and squeeze it while it is charged to make sure that you didn't set the lever too high. If it does not freeflow, you are good.


-Depending on your school of thought, you may want to put a drop of crazy glue or a dab of nail polish on the second stage nut so that it does not wiggle or move at all during use, which will change your cracking pressure.

-Optionally you can check your regulator with a magnahelic if you have one, my PRAM/RAM models usually crack around .6", which makes them better breathing than pretty much any modern single hose regulator (by design). If it is on the high side (above 1"), a little more IP may be in order. Regs are like women, everyone is crazy and different.

-Crack first beer, enjoy life. Alternately, you can put three ice cubes in a glass and pour 3 fingers of bourbon into it.



Personally, from now on I would ask this type of stuff on a real vintage board, like the one on www.vintagedoublehose.com. This place is more of a pick up point for VDH and www.vintagescubasupply.com 's forums. VDH is home to the NAVED, which at last count has 190 (ish) guys and girls that have been doing this stuff for a while. VSS also has NAVED members in its ranks. Heck, I'm the youngest guy in the club and my garage actually looks like a 50's dive shop. I guess my point is that SB isn't really the place for this stuff. Now, if you want to argue about a long hose or a BP/W....

I don't warranty this advice, and free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. IF you use this advice, don't sue me. IF you do not know any of the terms, then you shouldn't be tinkering on this regulator.

 

[Paladin]

Sorry about the confusion. I had a senior moment and forgot the difference between the DAAM and RAM first stages. But the second stage is the same and, like Slonda said, is adjusted the same way.

 

[Slonda828]

Sorry about the confusion. I had a senior moment and forgot the difference between the DAAM and RAM first stages. But the second stage is the same and, like Slonda said, is adjusted the same way.

No worries man. I just wanted to make sure that the proper procedure was disseminated. I admire the fact that you were trying to help Richard out, when you could have left him high and dry There are far too many people who would've ask why he wanted to dive a piece of old gear, instead of actually trying to help him out.

You two should join the NAVED when you get a chance. You get a secret decoder ring and instant email access to an incredible amount of diving knowledge. Besides, you get a super cool neato card as well.

 

[Paladin]

I signed up and am on the member list, but I just read the rules about the three requirements and I guess I need to do them before I can be considered a member, I suppose.

 

[Slonda828]

I signed up and am on the member list, but I just read the rules about the three requirements and I guess I need to do them before I can be considered a member, I suppose.

Board membership is open to everyone. NAVED membership is available here: NAVED - National Association of Vintage Equipment Divers :: Membership Rules

You must meet two of the four requirements, all of which are pretty easy. There is sort of an implied task of helping out newer and younger divers with learning the ways, but I think you wouldn't mind that. Learning from these guys made me a great diver.

 

[Nemrod]

Thanks!

I'll give it a try later today. I bought an IP gauge so I guess I prefer to use it.

I made something of a mistake above, this PRAM is built on a DAAM base. I don't think it makes a difference in the area where I am working but, if it does, let me know.

The neat thing about working on these regs is that VDH is just a UPS ride away.

Richard

The RAM and DA share the same body and second stage, the RAM however is balanced, the DA is not. The RAM IP should be set around 135 as a good place, some go higher (including me).

If that is a newly rebuilt reg from VDH, taking back my earlier thoughts, just remove the hoses, set it inside a good box and send it back with a note explaining your problem and I bet for very little it will come back fixed up just fine.

It takes a little finesse sometimes on regulators, any regulator, old or new.

When you get a lot of cooks in the fire via internet helpers and your just on a learning curve yourself you can sometimes disappoint yourself. The regs are easy to work on but like anything, they are also easy to ruin parts on.

And like Slonda said, this is a nice board for casual discussion of diving but when you need the pros, go to vdh.

I have been working on regulators for decades, I am a professional mechanic and can fix about anything, there are three people I turn to for advice on regulators, nothing against anyone else, there are a few more but these are the big dogs:

Luis, Captain, Bryan (and Dan at VSS).

Merry Christmas to all,
Nem