Practicing skills in different positions

[moodypete]

Hi,

I am taking a PADI basic OW course. I have finished the coursework and day 1 of confined water skills where we did regulator recovery, mask clearing etc.

We practiced these things while kneeling in the pool. My question is this: since is unlikely that I will be kneeling at the bottom when something happens to my equipment in a real dive, should I practice these skills in say a swimming position? I'm thinking of asking the instructor to let me try this.

Also, on the checkout dives, do they do anything different in terms of skills testing or is it basically the same thing?

 

[bradells]

Hi,

I am taking a PADI basic OW course. I have finished the coursework and day 1 of confined water skills where we did regulator recovery, mask clearing etc.

We practiced these things while kneeling in the pool. My question is this: since is unlikely that I will be kneeling at the bottom when something happens to my equipment in a real dive, should I practice these skills in say a swimming position? I'm thinking of asking the instructor to let me try this.

Also, on the checkout dives, do they do anything different in terms of skills testing or is it basically the same thing?

Yes, the motions are different (especially regulator recovery). Ask to learn while neutrally buoyant in horizontal trim, just as you would be diving.

BRad

 

[victorzamora]

Another option to that is kneeling on the bottom but leaning VERY far forwards.... like a fin pivot. Best would be from neutrally buoyant.... but buoyancy can be a little tricky to learn that well that early, so a fin pivot may be an easier compromise.

PS- good for you for thinking about it. I know I didn't have that presence of mind in my OW class. Also, it's great to hear someone striving towards neutral buoyancy rather than the easiest route possible

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

 

[moodypete]

Another option to that is kneeling on the bottom but leaning VERY far forwards.... like a fin pivot. Best would be from neutrally buoyant.... but buoyancy can be a little tricky to learn that well that early, so a fin pivot may be an easier compromise.

PS- good for you for thinking about it. I know I didn't have that presence of mind in my OW class. Also, it's great to hear someone striving towards neutral buoyancy rather than the easiest route possible

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

Thanks for the replies. The idea about doing is a fin pivot position is a good idea and timely since I guess that is one of the things they teach next. From there I'll try from the neutral position once they finish buoyancy control. I'm not exactly an absolute beginner having done maybe 15 resort dives over the years so I think I will be able to manage it...at least in a pool.

I think the fact that I at least have limited experience allowed me to think about it. Somehow I feel that these skills, especially regulator recovery, should be taught in other positions since one is unlikely to be sitting at the bottom of a pool when the need to use these skills occur.

 

[Lee Viathan]

Bravo! It's great that you are thinking and planning ahead. A thinking diver is a safe diver! Welcome to the Tribe!!

 

[Scott]

We practiced these things while kneeling in the pool. My question is this: since is unlikely that I will be kneeling at the bottom when something happens to my equipment in a real dive, should I practice these skills in say a swimming position? I'm thinking of asking the instructor to let me try this.

Ahh bless you my child. In other words...heck yeah!

If the instructor is anal and says kneeling is the only way, fake leg cramps and ask if you can lay down or on a slight incline aka: fin pivot or forward lean.
Any free time you have swimming around is also a good time to practice the skills you learn (unfortunately) kneeling. Try to stay horizontal as possible.

Also, on the checkout dives, do they do anything different in terms of skills testing or is it basically the same thing?

You will demonstrate most the skills from the confined water in the open water with a few changes.
In the pool there are a couple skills (Alternate Air source use) where the air is actually turned off and you need to respond. The air will remain ON during the checkout dives.
You may or may not do compass navigation work in the pool. That may be taught on dry land prior to and then you do those skills on the surface and underwater.
Unless the pool you are using is quite deep, the Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA) will be done vertically in open water.
No major changes. Just have fun with it.

 

[victorzamora]

Thanks for the replies. The idea about doing is a fin pivot position is a good idea and timely since I guess that is one of the things they teach next. From there I'll try from the neutral position once they finish buoyancy control. I'm not exactly an absolute beginner having done maybe 15 resort dives over the years so I think I will be able to manage it...at least in a pool.

It's good that you've got some resort dives, but that's far from "experienced" in terms of buoyancy control. Your goal should be to be able to complete ALL SKILLS in the shallow end of the pool in a hover. Why shallow? REALLY easy to touch bottom or surface, neither should be "allowed" in terms of your goal. However, fin-pivot-position is a much easier way to practice towards that goal. It's hard to go straight to "very good" without some sort of in-between step. The fin-pivot-position puts you in a fairly horizontal position, making your posture MUCH more similar to actual diving, and it makes you think about your buoyancy while still allowing some mistakes. Push yourself to be able to do a mask remove and replace in a hover, into a hover, in the shallow end, without touching surface or bottom. This may be post-certification. I'm Full Cave certified with some deco training and I still love doing those sorts of dives. Give me a divable pool and a full(ish) tank and I'd love to blow bubbles with goals like this in mind. Can't ever get too proficient, can you?

[These skills] should be taught in other positions since one is unlikely to be sitting at the bottom of a pool when the need to use these skills occur.

Absolutely. My wife got certified without doing skills except for on her knees. I didn't think about it (I had done ~250 dives over 9 years, but mostly at resorts) until we were actually diving one day. LUCKILY the conditions were benign, but another diver kicked my wife's mask and it flooded. She dropped STRAIGHT to her knees to do the skill, as that's what she had been taught. It took SEVERAL pool sessions for me to beat it out of her. I was never more proud of it working than when we were in Mx. Same thing happened again, and she cleared her mask from hover and maintained buoyancy. That should be expected. What I was proud of is how effortless it was for her. That was when she started realizing that the harder you practice, the more fun it is to dive. Practice dives let you iron out the boring stuff to the point where it becomes second nature so that it doesn't interfere with your fun dives.

PS- Congrats on your attitude. Not often you see someone willing to go above-and-beyond and really thinking ahead. I sure wasn't that way when I started. I wish I had been.

 

[DevonDiver]

I'm thinking of asking the instructor to let me try this.

When you do so, refer them to the article about Open Water Course revisions in the latest 'Undersea Journal' magazine. PADI are in the process of amending the OW course to place a much larger emphasis on skill development in neutral buoyancy.

Whilst the changes aren't in force globally yet, all instructors have been duly notified of the future requirements and the philosophy they represent. The pro-actives ones should be introducing this (as a principle at least), in anticipation of the formal training standards change. The very pro-active ones have been doing it for years anyway....

 

[TSandM]

You are so right! And quite a few of the skills, like regulatory recovery and mask clearing, are actually much easier in a horizontal, diving position.

There is a push underway, at least in PADI classes, to get away from the kneeling instruction altogether. If your instructor gives you any pushback on wanting to learn to do the skills horizontal and neutral, ask him to go reread the "Early Transition to Neutral Buoyancy" article from his professional journal last year, and to look at the description of the new OW course standards that will be in place this coming year. (Assuming he is PADI, of course.)

 

[Diver0001]

Hi,

I am taking a PADI basic OW course. I have finished the coursework and day 1 of confined water skills where we did regulator recovery, mask clearing etc.

We practiced these things while kneeling in the pool. My question is this: since is unlikely that I will be kneeling at the bottom when something happens to my equipment in a real dive, should I practice these skills in say a swimming position? I'm thinking of asking the instructor to let me try this.

PADI recommends teaching all skills while neutrally buoyant. The new course guidelines that are coming out between now and the end of Q1-2014 makes it clear that instructors *should* be doing this. This is, however, a significant change to how things have traditionally been done so it doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad instructor if he's not doing it.

If I were you I would discuss it with your instructors. Personally I feel that if a particular skill is initially introduced on the bottom for some reason that it should be the goal to be able to do those skills while neutrally buoyant before the course ends.

It could be that your instructor is planning on upping the bar as you go but it's a good thing to discuss openly with him/her. After all, the most important thing is how you dive when you're done with the course. The intermediate steps are all just part of a process of learning.

Also, on the checkout dives, do they do anything different in terms of skills testing or is it basically the same thing?

During check out dives the point is to show that you have mastered the skills well enough to be safe in real-world diving conditions. During check-out days you will bring things into practice. You will also learn how to navigate with a compass, which is a new skill that will be introduced during the check-out days.

R..