Post-Conception Disaster: what you learned & will change

[StefinSB]

We are not learning from the Covid cock-up. What makes you believe we will learn from the conception fire?

 

[NothingClever]

We are not learning from the Covid cock-up. What makes you believe we will learn from the conception fire?

Truth.

 

[lostsheep]

No nefarious intent?

Negligence and nefarious are not synonyms. The captain will likely be charged with involuntary manslaughter, not murder...for a reason.

I am astonished at your response and I suspect I’m not the only one.

Welcome to the internet.

 

[Ana]

No nefarious intent? .

I get the feeling neither the owner nor the Captain woke up every day thinking: I hope today is the day all my passengers die before the trip is complete.

Unfortunately they also didn't think: today I'm doing everything I can to make sure my passengers are safe for the full duration of the trip.

There's no telling what they thought that morning or the previous mornings.

 

[NorCalDM]

I probably won't change my traveling habits but will I look at things a little closer probably yes. This is more than likely truth for all of us if we are being honest. I'm a numbers guys so when you look at travel think of how we got to the boat and how safe that was a plane, car or another boat?

Death do to plane accidents:
2018 - 534
2019 - 257
2020 - 176 the first week of the year

Death do to boating accidents US only:
2017 - 653
2018 - 633
2019 - 613

This doesn't include car accidents or diving related deaths so do these stats change our other travel habits? Probably not. There is risk just walking out the door in the morning so you have to figure out what your person risk tolerance is. I just feel sad for all involved.

 

[boulderjohn]

I probably won't change my traveling habits but will I look at things a little closer probably yes. This is more than likely truth for all of us if we are being honest. I'm a numbers guys so when you look at travel think of how we got to the boat and how safe that was a plane, car or another boat?

Death do to plane accidents:
2018 - 534
2019 - 257
2020 - 176 the first week of the year

Death do to boating accidents US only:
2017 - 653
2018 - 633
2019 - 613

This doesn't include car accidents or diving related deaths so do these stats change our other travel habits? Probably not. There is risk just walking out the door in the morning so you have to figure out what your person risk tolerance is. I just feel sad for all involved.

You numbers are specious. How many of those deaths were the result of conscious negligence regarding safety requirements by owners of commercial conveyances in which the deceased put their trust?

 

[NorCalDM]

You numbers are specious. How many of those deaths were the result of conscious negligence regarding safety requirements by owners of commercial conveyances in which the deceased put their trust?

My point was that people die everyday doing something they think is safe whether it was their own doing or at the hands of someone else and is it really going to change our behavior? You can argue how those numbers how ever you want. 200,000 + people have died this year due to coronavirus in the US if you believe the numbers and people still won't wear a mask. Four times this week I've seen people throw cigarettes' out their car window even though hundreds of homes in my area have been burned this summer due to fires and one directly due to cigarettes', I 've personally been evacuated twice this summer. So no I don't think people area going to change as it is always somebody's fault other than our own.

 

[tridacna]

Will assume most everyone knows I'm talking about the Truth Aquatic's boat Conception that suffered a fire resulting in the deaths of all 33 passengers and 1 crewman. Other threads have gone into specifics of what happened, what's suspected to've happened, what should be done in response to what happened, etc... My aim for this thread is different.

I'd like to know first what you personally learned new from this situation, and secondly what, if anything, you will do differently in planning and accepting future trips, particularly live-aboard trips but not just those. I'll start.

What I Learned​

1.) I learned that in U.S. waters boats in that class are legally supposed to have a 'roving watch' at all times when even one passenger might be in a berth, which practically tends to be 24/7 while underway. It's an issue in quickly detecting fires before escalation, or when boats come loose from moorings (even in benign conditions, a mooring could come loose and a boat drift over and hit a reef).

2.) That is often not practiced. Also be mindset vessels outside U.S. waters might be under so such mandate (or if so, do they follow it)?

3.) When the bunk/stateroom area is 'confined,' as it was in a large room below deck on the Conception, it is preferred there be 2 really useable paths of egress from it, ideally leading to different points, ideally to open deck (e.g.: not both to an enclosed salon).

4.) Sometimes the 2nd method may be an overhead hatch that's hard to reach and wouldn't accommodate some obese people, or a bunch of people needing rapid evacuation. Due to practical consideration in boat construction and regulations, it is not practical to just 'cut a big hole and install stairs' to add a great 2nd path to a pre-existing boat.

5.) Once inflamed, boat fires can escalate much faster than I knew, creating such intense heat as to be impassable. I'd thought if smoke inhalation didn't get you while asleep, surely you could run through (albeit burned). Not necessarily so.

6.) Rechargeable lithium batteries on chargers can be a fire hazard and generate intense heat...but I still don't know just what the risk is. Ideally a charging station would be in some fireproof metal container...but this isn't common practice.

7.) Smoke alarm systems vary in quality and not every boat setup is as reliable as one might hope.

8.) Boats vary in safety briefings, including whether they mention a 2nd means of egress.

9.) A change in boating requirements could effectively shut down some boats, or lead to substantial increases in trip costs (specifics unclear).

What I Will Do Differently​

1.) I look for that 2nd exit path. In one case, at the end of a hall I saw an overhead item I think was a hatch. Couldn't have reached it. Didn't ask crew. I look around, but I'm not confrontational.

2.) Look for more safety-preparedness specifics in trip reviews, though I doubt it'll change why willingness to dive with otherwise reputable op.s for now.

In summary, I learned several things, but doubt it'll change my trip booking habits for now. I'm more aware of the risks, but not sure how the risk of serious injury or death compares to other risks I take (e.g.: of drowning on a dive, immersion pulmonary edema, serious fall getting in or out in a shore dive, fall with injury onboard). The Conception disaster was horrible...much like the accounts I've read of great white shark attacks, and the pain of loved ones after a diver dies (e.g.: likely from confusion related to narcosis and wandering off at depth, or simply never coming back).

What about the rest of you? Is the absence of a reliable roving watch now a deal-breaker? What about a good 2nd means of exit from bunks/staterooms? One diver mentioned he and wife paid extra for a stateroom that's not below deck; what are you willing to pay extra for that?

This is one time that a poll would have been useful.

 

[John Bantin]

My point was that people die everyday doing something they think is safe whether it was their own doing or at the hands of someone else and is it really going to change our behavior? You can argue how those numbers how ever you want. 200,000 + people have died this year due to coronavirus in the US if you believe the numbers and people still won't wear a mask. Four times this week I've seen people throw cigarettes' out their car window even though hundreds of homes in my area have been burned this summer due to fires and one directly due to cigarettes', I 've personally been evacuated twice this summer. So no I don't think people area going to change as it is always somebody's fault other than our own.

We are all going to die - that's given. It's just nice to eliminate some of the possibilities in a very extensive menu of possibilities. Just because you might die taking a shower does not mean you will not die in a burning boat. It's an "as well as" not an "instead of".

 

[Ana]

My point was that people die everyday doing something they think is safe whether it was their own doing or at the hands of someone else and is it really going to change our behavior? You can argue how those numbers how ever you want. 200,000 + people have died this year due to coronavirus in the US if you believe the numbers and people still won't wear a mask. Four times this week I've seen people throw cigarettes' out their car window even though hundreds of homes in my area have been burned this summer due to fires and one directly due to cigarettes', I 've personally been evacuated twice this summer. So no I don't think people area going to change as it is always somebody's fault other than our own.

I think you are right about people's reactions to threats in general.
Looking at myself I make a point of having clear view of entrances in public places, I want to see who enters my space but at the same time I haven't locked my Jeep since the day I bought it. So far the manual transmission has served as my anti theft device.

I have a very complete first aid kit on board but we don't use redundant gas on our dives.

We all judge our risks differently.