Post-Conception Disaster: what you learned & will change

[FinnMom]

Good thread.

I love liveaboards so of course I'm happy to read/review the practical lessons for liveaboard divers.

 

[kelemvor]

It all comes down to how much you are willing to pay. Many safety features have had to be mandated - like seatbelts in cars - because people think it won't happen to them and prefer not to spend the money.

Sort of. If a boat said "hey, we're not very safe.. good chance you'll die because we cut this this and this corner in order to be less expensive" there are surely people who'd opt to save the money. Unfortunately, the boat is going to say "we're an extremely safe operation, we've been in business for 20 years!" and the customer won't realize they're choosing an unsafe boat to ride on.

 

[Manatee Diver]

You still haven't answered if you know what a head boat is, and do you consider a head boat "luxury"?

This is a head boat:
https://www.cortezdeepseafishing.com/

And no they aren't luxury, when you can private charter a US flagged boat for less than a grand a day, that isn't a luxury boat. But they don't charter to scuba divers who are carrying $5k+ in camera equipment.

The scuba equivalent is the Blackbeard charters, the Fling, or all the Truth Aquatics boats (including the Conception) and no I don't consider them to be luxury.

Now that I've answered yours, you answer mine. What is your idea of real money for a private charter?

 

[TuckerIdaho]

Luxury isn't sleeping in a shared bunk room in any sense. You can do the math.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Luxury isn't sleeping in a shared bunk room in any sense. You can do the math.

Except I wasn't talking about head boats or their scuba equivalent. In fact I specifically excluded them.

I expect a completely different experience from say Blackbeard that costs $1k a week vs Aquacat that visits the same sites but costs $2k a week.

And have you considered that doing a private charter of a liveaboard would be equally as expensive? The Galapagos charter would probably be north of $100k to do a private charter.

And of course that completely ignores that even the people on the even the cheapest scuba charters have GoPros and other basic cameras and will want them charged. And the charter that say no, they are also likely to see their customers taking their elsewhere too. Even if the charging cabinet costs $100k to install the money divided among 20 passengers a week 10-20 weeks a year over a number of years is a very small number.

 

[Flatline]

Maybe if the vessel was 150-180’ but wasn’t Conception less than 40’?

I don’t know what’s your definition of a cattle boat.

I understand the magic and romanticism of nights at sea, working with the Navy I lost count of sunsets, sunrises, night ops short and long. Granted those moments had to be share with coworkers (some of them PITA coworkers) instead of a friend or a loved one, but having 30+ people in a small vessel gives me a feeling as romantic and magical as going to the DMV.

Obviously different people have different definitions of pleasure and it is a good thing.

I believe the Conception and Vision are about 80’ boats. Typically I booked limited load and don’t think I was ever on board with more than 25ish people. IMO the max capacity was to high and would be more cozy than I would like.

I am just sad about the likely loss of this experience. I would still go on LOB, but they have to change. And given the propensity to not follow regulations, complacency and potentially outright lie, I’m not even sure how to judge a safe boat anymore. Maybe the Nautilus boats?

I have heard more than one person say, why drop more than a thousand on a LOB in cold water when I can go to Coz for X? Given these repeated statements, I’m not optimistic about the future of this diving.

If someone would run a safe low capacity boats, I would gladly pay for it. It is a fundamentally different experience than going to a resort in the Caribbean.

 

[Marie13]

I saw this shortly after you posted and didn't want to reply hastily.

Of course 34 people's lives mean something to me . As alluded to before, the divers were mostly from my neck of the woods and I had met several in passing. I attended one of the funerals and my direct dive buddies knew several very well.

I do not believe there was any nefarious intent and I know how I would feel had I been one of the victims; I would want people to carry on.

No nefarious intent? They said screw the safety regulation of a roving watch - for years. They were lucky until they weren’t lucky. Textbook example of normalization of deviance. If the owner had no nefarious intentions, why are 34 people dead and why is the owner (maybe captain, too? Don’t remember) facing criminal charges?

I am astonished at your response and I suspect I’m not the only one.

 

[NorCalDM]

Maybe if the vessel was 150-180’ but wasn’t Conception less than 40’?

No the Conception was almost double that size and didn't feel cramped with 30 divers on board.

 

[gbf]

Thanks drrich2 for this.

I've only been on 1 liveaboard, Belize Aggressor IV, 3 times. Mostly we dive Bonaire (flights over about 5 hrs are out for us).

I hopped on board and immediately started on the beer and welcome "punch" and Jerry's munchies, totally ignored the safety briefing - as did most everyone else. After all, I was on vacation in a nice floating hotel - about equivalent to Hampton Inns. And we all know hotels have that placard on the back of the door with instructions on how to get out that we all read and absorb.

Amongst my running mates I'm regarded as hyper-safety-conscious to the point of being the stick-in-the-mud.

But on BAIV I just let it go with regard to the boat - I still acted like the old man about the dives. After all, the safety of the boat and passengers is the responsibility of the crew, while the dives are on me, no?

I will change my ways next time to make damn sure I can get out via the 2-or-more independent exit pathways, and will have minimum required survival gear on hand (did I say I have a closet full of MRE's and water and such?)

I realize I was being a total DA, and am still thinking about my new checklist. I'll probably do some more of the Caribbean LOBs, but much more discriminately.

 

[Ana]

No the Conception....

My mistake, don't know why I thought it was 40, it is the 30+ people that feels like such multitude to me.

So there were over 30 passengers plus crew in a 80' vessel. I will never know how that feels.
My only LOB experience is on the Juliet. I believe the Juliet is a hair over 100' , my first trip there I was one of 7 passengers with my husband an another couple friend of ours, didn't know the other 3.
The 2nd trip with them there were 3 more for a total of 10 passengers plus crew. By the 2nd day I knew that was too many people.

I love the LOB concept. Wake up have a coffee and splash, get a bite to eat and splash, quick snack and splash, just you and the ocean, nothing better right? well at least until it becomes just you the ocean and all the rest of the people,