Poor Man's Doubles ???

[Curt Bowen]

http://advanceddivermagazine.com/armadillo.html

Armadillo Sidemount

 

[pescador775]

Vincente, you like what that "Jersey Diver" has to say? Take a look at the "accident" room and you will see that a Jersey diver drowned a few days ago. He had all the crapola, excess gear that you people and that Jersey hack drone about daily, but the man died anyway--- on the surface. All that expensive, excess gear addresses an issue that is the least likely cause of injury or death and ignores the need to dive streamlined and fit. Rarely do any of you do the kind of dives that you are supposedly training for and a pony tank is the last thing most of you will need.

 

[Vicente]

I suppose next folks'll tell me this dead-dude carried the same knife I do, that's why they are dead and that's why I'll die soon. Seems like this thread has veered off-course. My apologies. Thanks for letting me know what the last thing I'll need is, I'll write that down so I don't fergit it.

 

[PerroneFord]

It is that in the DIR dogma, the only valid configuration for doubles is steel bands and a manifold. If there is some other doubles DIR configuration, let me know. I have read much and dive with many DIR people, and use many of the ideas myself. But it seems to be all-or-nothing on certain things.

There are VERY few things in DIR that are all or nothing. And manifolded doubles are NOT included in the must haves.

 

[Vicente]

I hang out with DIR types. I like a lot of what it has to offer. However everything I read about doubles says "steel-bands & manifold". No other configuration is ever mentioned. What about ponies? Last I read for open ocean, you were supposed to use a single Al-80 or doubled Al-80's, ponies are never mentioned. Having read George Irvine diving any configuration not mentioned automatically makes you a "stroke".

I find it odd to be on the "other side" I feel like the devil's lawyer here. I am usually arguing for DIR configuration. However there are some things about DIR dogma and behavior that plainly do not fit all situations, or just do not matter one whit. There's also a fair amount of "do as I say, and not as I do". For all the talk about fitness, every time I've been to spring locations in Florida there certainly seemed to be a lot of divers with doubles and expensive scooters I'd call "portly" to be kind.

 

[PerroneFord]

Vicente, I don't know what DIR divers you hang out with, but the many that I know tend to take their fitness very seriously. There are some that are large guys, but they still take their health very seriously.

And I am serious when I say that manifolded doubles are not the only config that is DIR. The "pony" bottle does not exist in DIR parlance, simply because it implies nothing. DIR advocates stages, deco bottles, and even bailouts for rebreathers. But the "Pony" is not something that is utilized and for good reason when you consider how it is used.

And I wouldn't use a visit to the florida springs as any measure of DIR/GUE. I've run into VERY few GUE/DIR cave divers at the springs. Offhand, I ran into a former WKPP member over at Morrison, David Rhea at Little River, and a swedish fellow at Morrison and again at Ginnie. That's all I can think of.

 

[jonnythan]

"The only allowed DIR setup is double steel tanks with permanent stainless-steel bands and isolation manifold. There are other details, and some variance is allowed in tank size to suit the individual diver, but otherwise, it is implicitly assumed that this setup will cover all situations. It does not."

DIR does not require *steel* back gas.

DIR does not require double tanks at all.

There are many DIR was of carrying back gas: aluminum doubles, steel doubles, aluminum singles, steel singles.

It's obvious this guy hasn't done his homework about DIR before he railed against it, and I think it's fair to say he hasn't done his homework about a lot of stuff before spouting off about it.

 

[Vicente]

As I said, no intent to turn this into a for/against DIR methods. Maybe the comment above "a pony is the last thing you'll ever need" set me off. It comes off as "trust me I'm an AUTHORITY and you should listen to me without argument." There is much in the DIR/GUE world to gain from. There is also much descended from the George Irvine "stroke" comments and it's consequences, plus a distinct NIH problem. I know people diving for 20+ years lobstering with a pony. Are they dead, every had any problems from that? No. And yet the comment above from Pescador goes directly from dead-guy->ponies/unapproved-doubles-config->you-will-DIE!

I rode down to the Keys once with a guy on the NSSCDS accident investigation committee. Ken something? Can't remember the last name. 6 hours of stories about how divers died. Surprisingly a lot of them were just accidents, every one of them different, don't recall gear configuration being a prime cause of death in any of them.

I see the rest of the crowd is already closing ranks as I'm not DIR enough and have "railed against it" because I am disagreeing with some aspect of what someone said in a forum. Thanks fellas! I guess I shouldn't mention my last name or someone will blackball me and have my C-card revoked.

 

[PerroneFord]

Vicente,

Come on now. Nothing about not being DIR enough. God knows I'm not with my talk of CCR!

It's a simple issue that a "pony" is one of the things that simply doesn't fit in the DIR realm. No biggie. It's not the gear that's an issue, it's all about attitude.

As you say, lots of people dive safely with pony bottles. But then some dont. Just like lots of guys dive safely with manifolded doubles.. but some don't. It's not the gear. It's the diver.

 

[Vicente]

It's not the gear. It's the diver.

Exactly.

I've seen folks diving "vintage" that I feel safe with.

I got my Cavern card back in '98, but have somewhat gone my own way as I generally dive open ocean. I dive a BP/W, long-hose all that if it matters.

I still don't get what the argument is against a pony. Perhaps someone can 'splain it.