pony or spare air?

[halocline]

What you fail to address is the issue that is much more important to me than running out of air. I watch my tank pressure religiously, and very much doubt I'll ever face an OOA emergency. But even with regular equipment servicing as recommended by the equipment manufacturers, it's possible for things to break. If one's regulator 1st stage fails with ample air remaining in your primary tank, even your octopus will be useless. That's when you'll be glad to have a pony.

I've already decided that, for me, the "Spare Air" systems don't have enough capacity.

At least 90% of regulator problems involve leaking or freeflow, not sudden loss of air. Remember that the regulator does not supply air, it merely regulates the flow from the tank. This is especially true with the 1st stage. The rare problems that might interfere with being able to get air are typically 2nd stage issues, like a torn diaphragm that allows the stage to flood. That's one reason for an alternate 2nd stage.

The likelihood of a sudden loss of air due to regulator failure is probably much lower than any number of other dangers that would require assistance from a buddy, such as entanglement, sudden medical problem, severe fatigue or anxiety, etc....all of these factors basically point to the safety of diving with a good buddy. And if you have a good, trusted buddy, you have your redundant air source. If you don't, and you're trying to at least in part compensate for that by carrying a pony, you're still endangered by all of the other things I mentioned.

I'm certainly not accusing you of doing anything like substituting a pony for a buddy, but clearly many new divers who feel they are significantly increasing their safety by carrying a pony are simply mistaken. And that's the problem with them for new divers, it can create a false sense of security.

I carry a 13cft pony on recreational dives occasionally, I'm not "against ponies" in general. But, I know exactly why I have it, and I would not put my life in it's hands; I'm using it to allow for a more leisurely trip to the surface in cases of unexpected air loss on deep, repetitive dives, often with lots of unknown divers around, where I do not under any circumstance want to shorten my safety stop. The Texas Flower Gardens is a perfect example; 5 dives/day, all of them 70-80ft at least.

 

[DaleC]

...but clearly many new divers who feel they are significantly increasing their safety by carrying a pony are simply mistaken...

How are they mistaken? They are signifigantly improving their safety by adding a second, completely redundant airsource. You seem to link adopting a RAS with abandoning the buddy system and instead of educating the new diver as to it's proper use you appear to prefer to deny its value. This only adds to confusion and misinformation. The same thing occurred when my OW instructor told me a BP/W was "technical" gear.
The two are not mutually exclusive but that seems to be what is being implied here. And if that is what is taught, that is what will be learned.

 

[CriticalMass]

The rare problems that might interfere with being able to get air are typically 2nd stage issues, like a torn diaphragm that allows the stage to flood. That's one reason for an alternate 2nd stage.

Notwithstanding, 1st stage issues are always a possibility. That's all I'm saying.

The likelihood of a sudden loss of air due to regulator failure is probably much lower than any number of other dangers that would require assistance from a buddy, such as entanglement, sudden medical problem, severe fatigue or anxiety, etc....all of these factors basically point to the safety of diving with a good buddy

And nowhere in my previous post did I even hint that assistance from a "buddy" should be minimized.

And that's the problem with them for new divers, it can create a false sense of security.

Way too much generalizing here. Your blanket statement covers everyone. People are different. If you want to put all "new divers" in a single, inept category, be my guest, but capabilities run the spectrum. Some will be more capable than others, even as "new divers". We might not all be "Divemasters", but we're not all "SCUBA dummies" either. Give some credit, please.

 

[DaleC]

"Divemaster" is no indication of ability. Ability is an indication of ability. No disrespect intended to Halocline.

 

[doctormike]

And if you have a good, trusted buddy, you have your redundant air source.

My pony is clipped to my harness at the shoulder and hip. I can't become separated from it. I have become separated from my good, trusted buddy.

 

[halocline]

Notwithstanding, 1st stage issues are always a possibility. That's all I'm saying

And nowhere in my previous post did I even hint that assistance from a "buddy" should be minimized.

Way too much generalizing here. Your blanket statement covers everyone. People are different. If you want to put all "new divers" in a single, inept category, be my guest, but capabilities run the spectrum. Some will be more capable than others, even as "new divers". We might not all be "Divemasters", but we're not all "SCUBA dummies" either. Give some credit, please.

First stage regulator failures that result in immediate loss of air are EXTREMELY rare, to the point where a heart attack, lightning strike, or shark attack is probably as or more likely. Do you carry a defibrillator and a bang stick with you too? Of course not.

Nowhere in my post did I say "all" or "everyone" or "inept." That's your incorrect reaction, not my statement. I said a pony CAN create a false sense of security for new divers who have yet to learn to rely on basic teamwork and dive planning. I absolutely stand by that statement. It does not mean it WILL, of course everyone is different.

And your insinuation that I'm equating lack of experience with capability or intelligence is totally wrong. New divers have one thing in common; they have very little dive experience. That's nothing personal, and certainly nothing to get defensive about. It does mean, IN GENERAL, that their top diving priority should be to learn better dive skills, and of course enjoy doing so.

 

[fnfalman]

I tried to search on the subject but ended up with, well, lots of crap. That is how I knew it would stir things up. Sorry in advance.

I haven't calculated my air use yet (SAC) (just finished my scuba certification). I suppose that I want to know if I should spend my money on redundant air or on a regulator or computer.

I like being under water. I think that having an extra source of air would make me feel a whole lot safer - you never know with rented gear.

You need to spend your money on diving and more training and leave redundant air/spare air/special air/pony bottle/bailout bottle for a much later date.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Hey, did any notice the OP bailed out 6 days ago and left us pissing on each other?

 

[doctormike]

I know that this is going to stir it up ...

Hmmm... Grumpy has a good point... are you thinking

?

 

[DevonDiver]

At least 90% of regulator problems involve leaking or freeflow, not sudden loss of air.

At least 62.3% of statistics are made up spontaneously and have no real merit.