caver
Contributor
How does one "hand off" a pony bottle when it is hooked to your tank that is on your back?
Pony bottles
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How does one "hand off" a pony bottle when it is hooked to your tank that is on your back?
Quick release bracket in my case.
I use this one- http://www.aquaexplorers.com/quick_release_pony_bracket.htm
I think Mark mentioned this one- http://www.ponybottlebracket.com/item432489.ctlg
And there are several others out there.
Redundancy. By having an totally independant air source available you are capable of self rescue even with a catastrophic failure of your primary system.
I'm going to guess that you're a LGS student? They advocate the 20 minute limit and max depth of 60. That is not true of all the agencies. My deepest PS dive was 110' and the the longest was 90 minutes. (not on the same dive
)
Caver,
First off great questions. There are so many good reasons for PSD's to have redundant air source. Entanglement and overhead hazards like fallen trees and ice can all put you at risk no matter what your depth. Ever been doing a solo diver sweep 100 feet from you ice hole and have your main reg start free flowing. You would be suprised just how quickly a full AL80 will to to empty. The safety diver with the contingency bottle seems like 1000 ft away. No question every psd need a fully redundant air source.
TC yes you got the bracket I was mentioning correctly. I researched over 15 different mounting devices and even tried to make a few of my own. This one is nice becuase it is easy to use and operate under water and does not rely on any special bands to connect to your main tank. It connects to one of your existing cam bands and maked changing your main cylnder.
My whole team has gone to these and Ed at Scubatoys gives board members a good discount.
Mark D.
First off great questions. There are so many good reasons for PSD's to have redundant air source. Entanglement and overhead hazards like fallen trees and ice can all put you at risk no matter what your depth. Ever been doing a solo diver sweep 100 feet from you ice hole and have your main reg start free flowing. You would be suprised just how quickly a full AL80 will to to empty. The safety diver with the contingency bottle seems like 1000 ft away. No question every psd need a fully redundant air source.
TC yes you got the bracket I was mentioning correctly. I researched over 15 different mounting devices and even tried to make a few of my own. This one is nice becuase it is easy to use and operate under water and does not rely on any special bands to connect to your main tank. It connects to one of your existing cam bands and maked changing your main cylnder.
My whole team has gone to these and Ed at Scubatoys gives board members a good discount.
Mark D.
caver
Contributor
I agree the redunduncy is good. I would suggest a stage bottle so it could be handed off without the bother of trying to unhook it. Pony bottles are for deep recreational diving. Cheaper also. Look at the price of an aluminum 80 and check it against a 13 to 19 cf pony bottle with a bracket system. An 80, a piece of rope, a hose clamp and clips are way cheaper, and hold more gas. Having a pony bottle is a tangle waiting to happen. If the stage bottle gets hooked on something at least it is out in front of you so you can see it. The 80 can alwaysed be used for something else in the future. A pony bottle is still a pony bottle, even if you put lipstick on it.
NudeDiver
Contributor
Anti-Hero
Contributor
I disagree. Try running a an effective search pattern with your belly in the mud dragging a slung AL80 on your side. Our 19cu pony's are fully enclosed in a pocket on the back of the BC. If things go sideways a safety diver is ready to clip on the line and come help. And if things go REALLY wrong a 90%er is standing by as well.
The way our gear is configured a pony is no more an entanglement hazard than your primary. I'd be far more concerned with getting all the extraneous knobs and straps on the EXO26 caught on something.
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Mostly all good responses for you here caver. To add
The primary diver is usually the best one to remove a pony bottle from the back-up IF needed. The only need for this is if the primary's own pony supply is getting low as in the event that he is trapped for an extended period of time. Also, if the primary handles the bottle we skip the step of "passing" it with hands and so he will have complete control of the bottle that he needs (ie it won't get dropped or pulled out by accident) Rarely (if ever) would the primary need to remove his own pony or have it removed so "passing it off" is probably something that is unecessary here. Don't forget that we are essentially solo diving unless theres a call for the back-up diver
Another reason why stage bottles (or slung bottles) don't work too well is that usually we can't see anything so if it does get tangled (and it certainly will in that spot) we won't be able to see to free it - it'll just cost us more time and screwing around.
What people sometimes don't understand about PSD is that we are usually swimming/crawling ON the bottom whereas a sport diver will be off the bottom completely. The entanglement area for us is definately on our ventral side so any equipment kept there increases the risk.
Its true that the bottles cost about the same no matter what the size and a good back mounted QR system is pricey (ours is over $100 just for the mount) but its really what is required to do the job safe and effectively. The cost is not really a concern for a good, safe system.
Poratability is another factor to consider. 2 80's is difficult to deploy vs 1 80 and a 19. We often have a hike or bush wacking to do to get to our dive sites
In the PSD world we often refer to pony bottles as the smaller ones as we are discussing here (rarely larger than 30cuft) so not realistic for deep diving at all.
I'm further assuming that a "stage" or slung bottle that you describe is larger than 30cuft as per what tech divers use -- or am I off base?
The primary diver is usually the best one to remove a pony bottle from the back-up IF needed. The only need for this is if the primary's own pony supply is getting low as in the event that he is trapped for an extended period of time. Also, if the primary handles the bottle we skip the step of "passing" it with hands and so he will have complete control of the bottle that he needs (ie it won't get dropped or pulled out by accident) Rarely (if ever) would the primary need to remove his own pony or have it removed so "passing it off" is probably something that is unecessary here. Don't forget that we are essentially solo diving unless theres a call for the back-up diver
Another reason why stage bottles (or slung bottles) don't work too well is that usually we can't see anything so if it does get tangled (and it certainly will in that spot) we won't be able to see to free it - it'll just cost us more time and screwing around.
What people sometimes don't understand about PSD is that we are usually swimming/crawling ON the bottom whereas a sport diver will be off the bottom completely. The entanglement area for us is definately on our ventral side so any equipment kept there increases the risk.
Its true that the bottles cost about the same no matter what the size and a good back mounted QR system is pricey (ours is over $100 just for the mount) but its really what is required to do the job safe and effectively. The cost is not really a concern for a good, safe system.
Poratability is another factor to consider. 2 80's is difficult to deploy vs 1 80 and a 19. We often have a hike or bush wacking to do to get to our dive sites
In the PSD world we often refer to pony bottles as the smaller ones as we are discussing here (rarely larger than 30cuft) so not realistic for deep diving at all.
I'm further assuming that a "stage" or slung bottle that you describe is larger than 30cuft as per what tech divers use -- or am I off base?
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