Pony bottle

[kidspot]

As a way of gaining experience you might get some shallow dives in where you can spend 45-90 min. of bottom time in a single dive even using a lot of air. Say 15ft and just spend time relaxing and getting used to breathing, controlling your bouyancy (which is much harder in the shallows) and stopping the extra nervous motions most new divers have. Plan on 10-15 dives in shallows like that just learning to control your own actions.

Watch what you do with your hands, I have seen several new divers gain an extra 1000 psi just by stopping all hand motion and learning to use their fins for everything instead of their hands.

That would automatically give you the contents of your pony bottle, plus you'd save the money and become a better, more focused diver in the process.

To avoid running out of air, get in the habit of checking your air every 5 minutes, and start predicting where your pressure will be, so you get used to the rate at which it is consumed at each depth.

Ask your buddy to help you get better also - if he is not willing too, then find another buddy to work with you - most experienced divers are thrilled to help a new diver improve, when they actually want to. (And most that I've met don't like to dive with a new diver who has no desire to get any better)

Just my .02 cents on the issue...

btw - while a pony/stage has it's place it does introduce a lot of new variables to deal with as far as task loading ... just some things to keep in mind.

Whatever else, enjoy the journey of getting better!

Aloha, Tim

 

[Stirling]

I need the pony bottle on my main AL 80 because I spearfish so it would get in the way if it was anywhere else. I am only 15 and only 130lbs, so I can't dive have too much weight on my back. I know I use to much air because my dive buddy has between 1000 psi and 2000 psi when I have 500 psi or less. I took the PADI Open Water Diver course. I dive between 90' to 130'. I dive saltwater and have 8lbs. in my weight belt. I plan on just useing the pony for an out-of-air emergency. I need only the cheapest and one reg.

I understand what you're saying, but make sure you have thought it all through before you decide how to spend your money and set up your rig.

How much do an Aluminum 80 and a pony bottle weigh together? A Luxfer 80 weighs 31.4 pounds empty, and an aluminum 30 weighs another 11.6 pounds empty, for a total of 43.0 pounds and 110 cubic feet of air. Add a little bit more weight for the extra regulator and hardware.

A Worthington LP108 weighs 45.9 pounds empty, so the weight of the tank alone is only 3 pounds greater than your aluminum 80 and a 30 pony, and you have almost the same amount of air. If you add the weight of the other regulator and hardware for the pony rig, it's really a wash. The weight of the rig out of the water is going to be the same.

Then consider that some of the weight you carry on your belt to dive with aluminum tanks is to compensate for their positive buoyancy at the end of your dive. The aluminum 80 is 3.4 pounds positive at 500 psi. The LP108 is 2.6 pounds negative "empty" (I am referring to a chart that may actually mean "empty," or may be referring to 500 psi - but in either case, it is still negative at the end of your dive). If you can carry a little bit less weight on your belt because of the difference in buoyancy between the aluminum and steel tanks, the total weight you are hauling around out of the water may turn out to be a little bit *less* with a single larger steel tank.

The steel tank is more expensive than the aluminum tank, but at $270 (another internet price) is cheaper than the cost of a half-decent pony setup (tank, one cheap regulator, and hardware). And frankly, I expect it will be safer and more reliable all around. It's your decision, but don't be in too much of a hurry to make up your mind; take your time and make a decision that you'll feel good about later.

Your high air consumption is probably a temporary phenomenon, and will improve with experience. However, you may also want to consider what you are wearing to protect against heat loss. If you are colder than your buddy, you may be burning up your air at a faster clip for that reason, too.

 

[ChrisA]

I am new to diving. I have only been certified for 10 months now, I only made 17 dives. I use too much air. Does anybody know about how much it will cost to get a pony bottle setup and what you need. I want between a 19cf and 30cf bottle. I want to be able to strap it to my main tank.

Questions:
1) Why do you want a Pony bottle?
2) How did you determine the size?

I just bought a ponny bottle setup. I expect that I will never really need it. It's purpose
is for if someday I find myself in deep water with not buddy and no air. Yes two screwups both at once. I don't exept to ever have to use it.

I figured the size based on how much air I'd need to safely get up ffrom 100 feet

All you need is a bottle, $100, a reg $150+, One of those mini SPGs $40 and a mounting
system (x-bracket) $40. Roughly $350.

BTW, I hope the purpose of the pony botle is not to extend your bottom time. The rule
is that is you are using the pony bottle you are headed to the surface.

 

[Stirling]

Sure doubles or a big tank are good. But this guy has SEVENTEEN DIVES. He doesn't need a stage bottle. He doesn't need double tanks. He doesn't need an extra-large tank.

He simply needs experience. Remember your air comsumption on your 17th dive?

Those are good points, but if he's diving to 90-130 feet and is using up all the air in his tank, he needs enough air to complete his dives safely. That need isn't going to wait for him to get more experience.

Whether it is a good idea to be diving to those depths before getting the experience and air consumption under control is another question, but - assuming that he will continue to dive to those depths and consume air at the same rate for the foreseeable future - I think his basic assumption that he needs more air for these dives is probably correct.

I don't think a pony is the way to solve that particular problem, but I do think he needs to have more air available to complete these dives safely and not find himself hurrying to the surface from 100'+ dives.

 

[ChrisA]

I need the pony bottle on my main AL 80 because I spearfish so it would get in the way if it was anywhere else. I am only 15 and only 130lbs, so I can't dive have too much weight on my back. I know I use to much air because my dive buddy has between 1000 psi and 2000 psi when I have 500 psi or less. I took the PADI Open Water Diver course. I dive between 90' to 130'. I dive saltwater and have 8lbs. in my weight belt. I plan on just useing the pony for an out-of-air emergency. I need only the cheapest and one reg.

Don't worry _everyone_ uses air faster when they are new divers, You just need to dive more. At your size, 130lbs, you will be the one who takes the half full tank back to the car. But a dozen or so dives in a year is not that much diving yet. Learn to relax and not spend energy. All people who are good at a sport make it look easy. That is your goal, make it look easy. Movement costs oxigen, minimize movement and you minimize use of air. Its the little things like moving the hands and being "tense" which is a waste of energy

I've been diving for only one year also and now after 100+ dives I'm using air about like
everyone else. About as many peole use more air than me as use less. I'm kind of
"median" right now. You will get there too, just keep at it and dive as much as you can.

As for what size bottle. Do an experiment. Note your SPG then head for the surface at
max safe rate, do a stop and when you to the surface note the SPG again. Figure how many CU FT of air youused andbuy a bottle a bit bigger than that. Ask for help converting PSI to cu ft if you can't figure it out.

 

[kidspot]

As for what size bottle. Do an experiment. Note your SPG then head for the surface at
max safe rate, do a stop and when you to the surface note the SPG again. Figure how many CU FT of air youused andbuy a bottle a bit bigger than that. Ask for help converting PSI to cu ft if you can't figure it out.

I have found the various tools at http://www.spearfishing.org/bruces_tips/java/gc.html to be very helpful in learning how to do this and many other useful formula calculators...

Tim

P.S. you can also roughly calculate that every 100psi in an 80cf tank is 2.5 cf (2.56666666 actually )

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Those are good points, but if he's diving to 90-130 feet and is using up all the air in his tank, he needs enough air to complete his dives safely. That need isn't going to wait for him to get more experience.

Or he could shorten his dives.......

 

[spearfisherman55]

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[Rick Murchison]

I always try to start coming up when I have only 500 to 700 psi left. I just want the pony bottle in case I run out of air, and I know I will run out of air if I go into deco on my computer. I dive at oil rigs.

Young man, you are going to get hurt.
Maybe crippled (do you know what an epiphyseal line is?).
Or even drown.
This is important. Listen up. You need to change your thinking and the way you dive.
Before you dive any more.
Until you are 18 or 19 and you have quit growing taller, you need to restrict your diving to about 60' or less; you need to stay away from situations needing staged decompression. Never mind the lack of training, you can permanently damage your bones. The chicks don't dig that.
There are plenty of fish to kill without killing yourself.
Trust me.
Listen to your uncle.
Love,
Uncle Ricky

 

[spearfisherman55]

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