Pony Bottle: Valve On or Off while diving

[Nemrod]

Could you please expand on your statement Nemrod. I detailed why I believed that it was an option... are they not valid?

I earlier stated I think the valve should be fully open for a pony bottle because of the possibility of immediate need and other reasons I gave. But a valve that is neither fully open or fully closed could restrict breathing and in the emergency it would be very easy to close the partially open valve rather than open it compounding the emergency. I undertand your thinking in an attempt to pressurize the regulator but you are setting yourself up for disaster with it partly open with no real positives. I would rather you close the valve, at least then as you struggle with it to open it you will know which way to go, maybe! Aside from certain stage bottles, perhaps, your tank valves should be open and ready for use. That is an opinion but it is also more than an opinion, it is a standard practice.

James

 

[SurteesDiver]

Ok thanks for responding James. I found that the valve is right in front of my face so turning on is not an issue and because it is so easy I can't envision any problem getting it turned on rapidly.

 

[Edward3c]

Ok thanks for responding James. I found that the valve is right in front of my face so turning on is not an issue and because it is so easy I can't envision any problem getting it turned on rapidly.

What you’re describing is no different than the fully open and back 1/2 turn. Depending on how the valve was made 1/2 turn could be fully open or still fully closed. I’m with earlier posts in that if you have gas burbling out, get the reg adjusted.

Irrespective, how often do you practice switching to the pony and ending the dive using it? Just putting it in your mouth for a breath or two doesn’t prepare you for an ascent, making yourself buoyant on the surface (without using your back gas) and landing, or recovery into a boat.

 

[happy-diver]

Sometimes my bottle is on, sometimes I forget
Look at this mess, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Sometimes my bottle is off, sometimes I forget
Where is that valve, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I only open my valves two turns any more than two turns is just too much turning

There is that valve at the bottom

next to mine always there plenty of purchase

That's me laughing hard trying not to flood my mask harder, finger waving

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

 

[happy-diver]

I first heard the mantra of get rid of your pony go twins blah blah blah
when the first current style extra knob manifolds emerged with the dive
shop owner figuratively rubbing his hands together as he offered a credit
option or the offer of a dive shop account to buy only a few extras such as
that extra tank or two, manifold, bands new bc and extra regs for thousands

go twins my arse

 

[happy-diver]

Right, I understand, but the problem is that nuance and specifics are often overlooked or soon forgotten, while the central message of "this experienced tech diver said that CESA was a good option" is much more likely to be retained.

You've done your job I'm stupid so you can go back to the basic forum and we'll sit here and say nothing

 

[Pao]

Half full Al80 rigged as a deco/stage bottle. Neutrally buoyant. Where I come from, they are the de facto rental bottle. You only need the rigging kit and reg. Valve is FULLY CLOSED but reg is "charged" to prevent water ingress. Contingency gas is why you sling a pony anyway so why risk losing your gas?. Fully closed so the valve turns only one way and avoids confusion.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Been musing around the idea of backup/redundant air in the form of a pony bottle for a while now and I've been wondering a few things.

Let's first start with a couple of givens:

1. 13 ft^3 bottle
2. Mounted on the main tank or on a Zeagle Zipper attachment on the BC (I have a ranger LTD)
3. Stage Kit type rigging
   1. SPG
   2. DIN first stage
   3. Second stage with long hose and retainer band

For some reason one potential and routine problem that comes to mind is sudden free flow of the pony second stage, whether at the surface or just because it doesn't like the position, or losing air through an incipient leak through a loose fitting or the like.

My gut says that the pony tank valve should remain closed until needed. Of course this would mean having immediate and ready access to the valve which in turn means the tank should likely be mounted valve down.

Am I barking at the moon or is there some merit to this thought?

If you put the pony on your back, attached to your main tank, you will need to counter it with offsetting trim lead. I found that by slinging my pony diagonally in front of me, there is no need to use offsetting trim weights. Also when slung, if needed you can remove the pony and hand it to another diver. I keep my pony charged and turned on when diving. Since it is in front of me, I can see if there are any leaks, but the pony is always turned on. I used a 13cu pony for my 1st 70 dives, then I moved to a 30cu. I used an OMS stage rigging kit for my pony.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

First. Don't use pony bottles, proper planning prevents the need for pony bottles. If proper planning can't prevent the need for a pony bottle then you need a fully redundant setup in the form of doubles or sidemount, both of which take up less space than a pair of tanks and a pony.

So a pony bottle is not to be used for gas planning purposes, but rather emergency purposes only. Planning has nothing to do with a pony bottle; it is there for one purpose and one purpose only, that one's primary source of air is no longer working due to a failure. Running out of gas is not an equipment failure, but poor gas management. One's pony bottle is not there to compensate for one's poor gas management skills, although it will save your ass in that event. Having doubles or sidemount, one still has to plan your gas management. Equipment failure can happen with any rig, and a pony btl is insurance against an equipment failure.

 

[Nemrod]

A pony bottle or in the case of a solo diver, this being the solo forum, I prefer it called a buddy bottle because it substitutes for a buddy and is not a reserve but a redundancy. It is not part of the gas plan as would be a reserve but again needs to be sufficient to the depth and conditions to act as a redundant supply to retreat to the surface. Solo as certified by SDI and PADI is non-tech, no deco, no overhead, aside from clearing kelp or waiting a moment to clear boat traffic, the solo diver does not need to prepare for deco or a long swim back to the cave entrance, only go to the surface. And the solo diver does not need a buddy bottle sufficient for him and a buddy because he has no buddy . And I am off topic so I am sorry.

ON preferably or OFF, if such is your training, but please not in between. Only trouble lies there.

James