Pony Bottle / Spare Air

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Three questions:

1. Can you check a pressure guage for the pony during the dive?
2. If you plan your dive and dive your plan in such a way that your main tank has enough air for you and your buddy should he go OOG, is your pony strictly for the case where you have an equipment failure?
3. When you fly, are you required to remove the valve of your pony tank?

1) No, I used a button gauge. I check it before and after every dive. It has never lost air.

The 2nd is placed such that I would see a free flow. It might be possible for a slow leak to go unnoticed mid-dive. I know from actual testing and regular practice that I need 900lbs from my pony to make a safe 30FPM ascent from 75' with a 3 minute safety stop. I need about 1600-1700lbs from 100', which is my personal limit. This gives me adequate reserves for stress induced air consumption increase, but I am prepared to cut my safety stop short if needed.

2) Yes, I always follow rock bottom (enough air reserve for my buddy and I to ascend safely on my primary tank), even if I am solo my reserve is for 2 divers. Avoiding proper dive planning because you have a pony defeats the entire purpose.

3) Yes, always removed valve for the airlines, never an issue.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Sorry, but I am not following your logic.

My statement is that it one is going to dive with the standard recreational basic scuba setup of a regulator on a single cylinder that has a primary second stage and an alternate second stage off of it, why add one more mouth piece to the mix.

Oh, I wasn't arguing with your personal choice, but rather I was pointing out that any time person A points at person B and suggests that their choice is sub-optimal, we must accept the possibility that person C says the same thing about person A.

This says nothing whatsoever about A, B or C, merely suggests that they exist.

 

[Dr Wu]

Anything could be argued. What I argue is that additional equipment introduces additional modes of failure that introduce new risks. It also introduces a potentially false sense of security that modifies the behaviour of the diver. The objective is for the new equipment to address existing failure modes, eliminating existing risks. With training and skills practice, the likelihood of experiencing the new failure modes can be dramatically reduced, and the likelihood of eliminating the existing risks can be increased. With training, the sense of security can be brought in line with the actual improvement in the diver's ability to survive a failure.

I argue that discussing the equipment without considering all three factors (risks introduced v.s risks addressed, potentially false sense of security, and skills practice) is going to fall a little short of ideal. At the very least, we should agree on what type of diver is being debated. Are we talking about an experienced diver with Solo Diving training carrying a pony? Or someone like myself with 72 dives who rents a pony at the dive shop without considering how it fits in with my existing gear and dive habits?

Agreed.

In this thread alone you have 6 divers with less than 100 dives (two have less than 50) that are convinced a pony is a necessary part of their dive plan.

 

[ba_hiker]

Spare air is perfect for any dive emergencies that happen at the surface.

Many helicopter crews cary them to help get out of the craft in case of an emergency ditching in water. They are great for getting out of you car that has sunk in a river...

 

[diver 85]

OH------this one ought to be good---------lmbo

 

[muddiver]

Oh, I wasn't arguing with your personal choice, but rather I was pointing out that any time person A points at person B and suggests that their choice is sub-optimal, we must accept the possibility that person C says the same thing about person A.

This says nothing whatsoever about A, B or C, merely suggests that they exist.

Ok, got it. And I am supprised that we (or I) have not been flamed by the DIR/GUE/"Doubles with long hoses is the only way to dive" group.

Part of the drive for my statement are the stories of Russians going scuba diving and doing 150' to 200' deep dives on single aluminum 80 cu ft cylinders.

 

[Hatul]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Spare Air was developed for helicopter pilots to escape if the chopper is forced into water.

Adam

 

[Chris12day]

I do understand that the cases you sited the divers failed to utilize their equipement correctly. I am a DAN member and support DAN's activity. What those numbers do not tell you....How many people were saved because the diver or the diver's buddy carried a pony....

Thanks for your input.

 

[Dr Wu]

I do understand that the cases you sited the divers failed to utilize their equipement correctly. I am a DAN member and support DAN's activity. What those numbers do not tell you....How many people were saved because the diver or the diver's buddy carried a pony....

Thanks for your input.

I understand.

It's just that I have seen an explosion of interest in pony bottles with newer divers over the last few years. They have become a very popular accessory.

I appreciate the fact that people want to expand their safety and enjoyment of diving, but few of these divers actual take the time to consider what that alternate source really means.

Within the typical warm water, high visibility diving that most newbie’s enjoy a pony is nothing more than a potential confusion, source of weight and drag and hampers proper dive techniques.

The time spent "configuring" a pony and conceiving of ways to "deploy" it would be better served simply by analyzing the reasons the pony itself would be assumed to be required.

Simply put: if you think you need a pony, you have to ask why you think you are going to run out of gas in the first place? And why is your buddy not able to help you in that situation?

Too often the only reasons for carrying one are "my buddy may desert me", "more air is more air" or "I like the feeling of security". All of these reasons are faulty and the last one is laughable.

OC gear works. The buddy system works. Dive training for OOA situations works if done correctly.

Fumbling with a "redundant" source may work but the time invested during an emergency would be better spent following the proper learned procedure. Grab your buddy, share their air and surface. That or do a CESA

If you are really afraid of an equipment failure and consider yourself alone there is no reason not to dive with two first stages on your primary gas source.

Dive safe

 

[QatarDiver]

I got a 1 litre (sorry you old fashioned guys, we do metric over here!) with exactly the same first stage and second stage as I already had (Aqualung Micron, very light and small), that way I can alternate my reg sets easily so I know each is regularly used, and if I upgrade to twin tanks I already have matching first and second stages. I sling the tank, a 1L is tiny, so light and neat. I've tested my air consumption, I consumed half the air in 3 minutes at 18 metres. Ok, so that was not an emergency, but I feel happy that I could either; ascend safely from 30m, or swim for say 4 minutes to get to my buddy. I might well get a 2 litre tank for deeper stuff, the're not expensive.