Pony Bottle / Spare Air

[GeorgeC]

.......Allow me to explain. When diving with multiple tanks one of the dangers is inadvertently placing the wrong second stage in your mouth and breathing from it. In the case of technical diving this potential problem is addressed in several ways. In the case of recreation divers what can happen is the diver places the pony in their mouth thinking it is the primary and has an OOA. They stress and think "Better switch to my pony" and find it is empty. This has happened in real life situations......

What's up Doc?
If you sling the pony it is pretty hard not to realize I am breathing off this yellow hose connect to this bottle right in front of me rather than the hose over my right shoulder.

Let’s go with the logic “The diver placed the pony regulator in his mouth inadvertently and is breathing until he runs out of air” (Let’s also assume the diver never checked his back gas spg from the time he entered the water until he ran out of air) Wouldn’t he then switch regulators in a OOA situation to his primary back gas (Thinking it was his pony reg)? He would get plenty of air, thumb the dive and realize he needs to rethink his setup. How can you be on your pony, run out of air and switch to the same regulator in your mouth? The act of switching regs will give you your back gas back!

To mitigate the above problem. Sling the pony, predict your pressure then check it as trained (Gives you an idea if you know how much air you are using). I check my back gas spg often and my slung pony spg often.

 

[kanonfodr]

I believe that I will purchase and learn how to use a 19cf pony. I just hope that it doesn't eat too much or causes a problem for my neighbors due to the smell...

I just confirmed a Great Barrier Reef dive this July.........hopefully I will see minke whales....

Great!! I am still new to my pony so I tend to practice with it a lot, including midwater deployments and stowage. It sure does make me feel safe though, since this buddy is clipped to my scuba rig so he can't run away too easily.

Peace,
Greg

 

[marcopalla]

big IMHO

1) I'm agree with the vision:
more stuff, more complexity = more possible problems and errors.
There is a procedure not an opinion: OOA = breath with your buddy. Period.
No Agencie raccomands something else in rec field, no pony or horse.

2) if you dive alone.... you are out of recreational standards... you are plaing with fire and You HAVE TO know what you are doing. You have to know that risks of accidents increase a lot (I personally have recovered 2 bodies of solo rec divers in 6 years... and they were not alive )

3) here in europe pony tanks are not so common between recs, the few I have seen have 2 second stage at tank and 1 second stage at pony. IMHO is a little bit confusing, I think better 1 second stage on both, isn't it? what's the config? and pressure gauge? on both? integrated on pony?

peace,
m.

 

[Tanked]

Yup - Spare Air is the only piece of scuba gear that will allow you to run out of air TWICE on the same dive.

:shocked2:

I think we found Spare Airs new motto!

 

[halocline]

This topic comes up all the time, and anyone really interested in the spare air debate could easily spend weeks reading threads on it. The salient point that does not often get made is that carrying a spare air will absolutely change a diver's attitude towards his own dive behavior. This is the true danger in these devices. Carrying one can increase the likelihood of running out of air without a buddy. Once in that unfortunate situation, all kinds of things can happen, only a few of which the spare air can solve.

The answer is to carefully analyze what exact problem(s) you are trying to solve by carrying a tiny bottle of air, and then seek specific, comprehensive solutions to those problems. The biggest one is diving in such a way that you simply do not run out of air without immediate access to the surface. It's not difficult to do that, all it takes is awareness of your air use, responsible dive planning, and using the buddy system.

People that advocate spare air "in case" these benchmark safe diving practices fail, are essentially admitting they they lack confidence in their ability to follow those practices, or do not really understand how to apply these practices to all dive behavior. That's the real problem.

 

[muddiver]

Pony Cons:

They can cause foolish gas planning

They can cause foolish buddy planning

They can be empty when you think they are full

They can be turned off when you think they are turned on

They can be turned on when you think they are turned off

They can be mistaken for the primary and run out

The regulator can malfuntion

They can become entangled

They can be too small

They can be too big

Every one of these reasons has caused fatalities.

Please provide documented incidents to substanciate your statements. Otherwise I do not agree with or even believe most of your points.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

The salient point that does not often get made is that carrying a spare air will absolutely change a diver's attitude towards his own dive behavior.

The safer skydiving gear becomes, the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant.

Booth's rule #2, coined by skydiving pioneer Bill Booth, from Wikipedia's article on Risk Compensation.

 

[muddiver]

What's up Doc?
If you sling the pony it is pretty hard not to realize I am breathing off this yellow hose connect to this bottle right in front of me rather than the hose over my right shoulder.

Let’s go with the logic “The diver placed the pony regulator in his mouth inadvertently and is breathing until he runs out of air” (Let’s also assume the diver never checked his back gas spg from the time he entered the water until he ran out of air) Wouldn’t he then switch regulators in a OOA situation to his primary back gas (Thinking it was his pony reg)? He would get plenty of air, thumb the dive and realize he needs to rethink his setup. How can you be on your pony, run out of air and switch to the same regulator in your mouth? The act of switching regs will give you your back gas back!

To mitigate the above problem. Sling the pony, predict your pressure then check it as trained (Gives you an idea if you know how much air you are using). I check my back gas spg often and my slung pony spg often.

I take a slightly different approach that provides the same affect: I mount my small pony (13 cu ft) on the right side of my main cylinder with the valve down. The pony regulator has a long hose so that this works for me if I have to switch. The pony regulator second stage is always clipped of on my right BCD shoulder strap and completely replaces the octo/safe second on my main regulator. Therefore I don not have a second stage regulator on my main cylinder when I dive with the pony, thus there is no third regulator to confuse the issue.

big IMHO

1) I'm agree with the vision:
more stuff, more complexity = more possible problems and errors.
There is a procedure not an opinion: OOA = breath with your buddy. Period.
No Agencie raccomands something else in rec field, no pony or horse.

2) if you dive alone.... you are out of recreational standards... you are plaing with fire and You HAVE TO know what you are doing. You have to know that risks of accidents increase a lot (I personally have recovered 2 bodies of solo rec divers in 6 years... and they were not alive )

3) here in europe pony tanks are not so common between recs, the few I have seen have 2 second stage at tank and 1 second stage at pony. IMHO is a little bit confusing, I think better 1 second stage on both, isn't it? what's the config? and pressure gauge? on both? integrated on pony?

peace,
m.

Carying a pony and having a alternate second stage regulator on your main cylinder is just confusingly redundant and totally un-necessary. Those people have no idea what they are doing, probably have not thought through the process and reason behind what they are doing, and just make me think that European divers don't have the training or don't really think about what they are doing.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

Carying a pony and having a alternate second stage regulator on your main cylinder is just confusingly redundant and totally un-necessary. Those people have no idea what they are doing, probably have not thought through the process and reason behind what they are doing, and just make me think that European divers don't have the training or don't really think about what they are doing.

Odd, I have met some people that say the exact same thing about carrying a pony! Their argument is that as long as you are carrying a second tank, a two first stages, and two or more second stages, you might as well add a manifold with an isolator and dive doubles.

Now you have full redundancy over a large set of failures a simple setup with fewer opportunities to make mistakes, and access to all of your gas. So, the argument goes, if you choose to execute a dive where you do not rely on your buddy for redundant gas, using a pony suggests you don't have the training or haven't really thought about the possible failures and how to handle them

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I have yet a 3rd method for my 13cu ft pony. I mount in on my tank right side, valve down so I have easy access to the valve. The 2nd stage is right next to the pony valve with the hose held along the length of the pony with shock cord.

The 2nd for the pony is thus in a place that is not accessible by others, nor a cause of confusion, but easy for me to grab, always in exactly the place I left it. One quick tug and I have air. I still have my safe second on my primary because a 13cu ft pony by itself seems to be a little small to replace my normal safe second. Also, I can dive without the pony with my normal buddies and not change my regulator setup.

I consider a moderate sized pony a practical solution to the need for redundant air for solo or instant buddy situations. It is not ideal, but it is certainly much more practical for a diver that travels than going for doubles and an isolated manifold.