...don't you?
Pony Bottle Configuration
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chrpai
Contributor
If your not worried about gas managment, how about just getting an H-Valve and putting an extra reg on it? You'll have the task loading of shutting down the freeflowing reg though.
No, I really don't want one. Let me explain. I am a semi-experienced diver cert. for 5 years with about 300 dives. I have never experienced a catastrophic failure as I have inquired about in previous posts. There have been a couple of times that I have run low on air (my fault) but I never plan on ever running out of air. Ever! I dive every "buddy dive" as a solo dive and monitor my air conservatively. I don't need or want an extra piece of gear nor want to go to a larger cf tank than my hp100. So why did I post my original thread, you ask? One reader made a reference to a emergency parachute (pony bottle?). There is a part of me that sees that as an analogy to diving. I'm just trying to get some viewpoints on the practice.
Implicit in Uncle Pug's comments about doubles was redundant 1st and 2nd stages and an isolation valve. That way you have redundancy for an unlikely tank, 1st stage, or 2nd stage failure.
That being said, I know of an instructor (pleasure diving) that had his 1st stage 'explode' at about 85 fsw. His buddy, was nearby and they performed a successful alternate air source ascent.
That stuff doesn't happen very often, but its also why having a buddy close is a good idea in the unlikely event ........
Otter
That being said, I know of an instructor (pleasure diving) that had his 1st stage 'explode' at about 85 fsw. His buddy, was nearby and they performed a successful alternate air source ascent.
That stuff doesn't happen very often, but its also why having a buddy close is a good idea in the unlikely event ........
Otter
I dive a 12 liter twinset in cold UK waters. Before this I had a single 12 + 3 liter pony. Why did I get a pony ?? - because it made me feel safer and more secure in that I had a totally redundant air supply to get me home if things went tits up. I have never had a failure (the only ones I can think of are an O-ring blow out or a freeflow from the main cylinder/reg)
My view on a pony (or for that matter any redundant air supply) is that it is for ME and not for my buddy. Selfish ?? - yes, useful for a buddy?? - also yes, but generally its for me.
I have (had) one reg on the main tank and one on the pony. The set up was just as streamlined as my twinset and carried just as much entanglement risk as either a single or twinset - assuming you are not intending to penetrate wrecks etc
So my advice is if you want a pony then get one if it makes you feel safer/more confident. Forget the fancy calculations - it will get you to the surface from 30m and yes you might get a bend but this is an EMERGENCY situation - one that you should plan never to happen by good gas management and kit maintenance.
If you never use it then great - if you have to use it then you are taking too many routine risks. Its a bit like life insurance - you pay your money - just in case
My view on a pony (or for that matter any redundant air supply) is that it is for ME and not for my buddy. Selfish ?? - yes, useful for a buddy?? - also yes, but generally its for me.
I have (had) one reg on the main tank and one on the pony. The set up was just as streamlined as my twinset and carried just as much entanglement risk as either a single or twinset - assuming you are not intending to penetrate wrecks etc
So my advice is if you want a pony then get one if it makes you feel safer/more confident. Forget the fancy calculations - it will get you to the surface from 30m and yes you might get a bend but this is an EMERGENCY situation - one that you should plan never to happen by good gas management and kit maintenance.
If you never use it then great - if you have to use it then you are taking too many routine risks. Its a bit like life insurance - you pay your money - just in case
... if you must use a pony at least practice with it and become proficient in using it so that it doesn't become a screaming liability when you have over extended yourself due to relying on it.
... if you must back mount it then get proficient at reaching back and disentangling line, netting, what~have~you from the valve and line trapping V created by the pony and main tank (this V is protected by the manifold and hoses in a proper doubles rig.)
... if you choose to front or side mount it get proficient in disconnecting and handing off as well as clearing entangements. It would also be prudent to practice swimming through hoops so you would get a feel for how much room you need to leave between the tank valve/regulator and obstacles (wouldn't do to knock a regulator off!)
... in any case practice regularly deploying and breathing off the pony regulator while stowing the primary second stage from your main tank. An emergency of the sort imagined to necessitate a pony is not the time to start learning how to use one.
... decide if you are going to leave the pony turned on (necessary if back mounting) or turned off. Know the downside of each and be prepare to deal with lost gas... at the worse possible moment.
... if you must back mount it then get proficient at reaching back and disentangling line, netting, what~have~you from the valve and line trapping V created by the pony and main tank (this V is protected by the manifold and hoses in a proper doubles rig.)
... if you choose to front or side mount it get proficient in disconnecting and handing off as well as clearing entangements. It would also be prudent to practice swimming through hoops so you would get a feel for how much room you need to leave between the tank valve/regulator and obstacles (wouldn't do to knock a regulator off!)
... in any case practice regularly deploying and breathing off the pony regulator while stowing the primary second stage from your main tank. An emergency of the sort imagined to necessitate a pony is not the time to start learning how to use one.
... decide if you are going to leave the pony turned on (necessary if back mounting) or turned off. Know the downside of each and be prepare to deal with lost gas... at the worse possible moment.
Very Good points from UP.
Look into Tiger Gear for Pony mounts. Works greats on all tanks including rentals.
Look into Tiger Gear for Pony mounts. Works greats on all tanks including rentals.
Scuba_Vixen
Guest
Been watching this thread, and as a pony user before I got into tech, thought I'd offer my perspective. From what I gather, the big issue comes down to task loading, feeling secure (less stress) and overall equipment complexity. Doubles are; more harm than good to a rec diver not proficient in valve drills, heavier and more difficult to trim than the single with pony, have no less entanglement hazzard than a well placed pony, and in general, just a pain in the wazoo for most rec diving. A pony mounted somewhat to the right side of the main tank can be easily balanced with the trim weight in the opposite side bc trim pocket, and it stays close to the divers back, out of harm's way. If the bc has an Air2, then the pony reg goes where an octo usually goes. A mini spg over the left shoulder by the bc inflator lets you check pressure at a glance. While slinging the pony may be a viable option, for rec diving, I preferred not feeling encumbered with this thing moving about beside me. Most of us have never needed our seatbelts or airbags, but it's nice to have them there incase. I've never needed my pony, but on the off chance that it prevents just 1 WAPA (Wild And Paniced Ascent) from 120' or so, I'm gonna spend the extra few moments and slip the cam band thru the Xbracket every time I dive a single.
I think a lot of divers want a bit more self rescue ability without feeling like they have to become techies.
Or at least that's this old lady's perseption.
Just say NO to WAPA's
Darlene
I think a lot of divers want a bit more self rescue ability without feeling like they have to become techies.
Or at least that's this old lady's perseption.
Just say NO to WAPA's
Darlene
Braunbehrens
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Actually a small slung bottle will be very inobtrusive. Being able to get to the valve is paramount, IMO, and you can't do that if the bottle is behind you. Having the spg on a long hose is just adding more entanglements and complications. With a slung bottle you can have a tiny spg tied to the valve.
I've tried both, and I would recommend anyone interested in a "pony" to at least try slinging it to see if they don't like it better. Chances are you will.
I know it sounds like the bottle will be in your way, but it really isn't, and since you can SEE it, it's much easier to avoid having it touch something.
I've tried both, and I would recommend anyone interested in a "pony" to at least try slinging it to see if they don't like it better. Chances are you will.
I know it sounds like the bottle will be in your way, but it really isn't, and since you can SEE it, it's much easier to avoid having it touch something.
After reading your whole post I found something I could agree with.
But you don't need a pony for that.... you just need to have your stuff together.
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