Polish diver dies in world record attempt to 333m

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

What is the merit to climb Everest? It has been done back in 1953. It has been done with no supplementary O2 . It has been done with Alpine style.
How many people have summitted Everest? Several thousands.
How many divers have gone beyond 300m in OC without surface support? You can count with one hand.

Remember what Mallory said about climbing Everest?

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

Climbing Everest is not done by people today who want to set a record, or to do something that's never been done before. It's done by people who want to climb Mt. Everest, for whatever reason. Just like I would like to dive the Andrea Doria. Not because no one has done it before, but because I might want that experience.

I guess a better altitude analogy would be that instead of going to the top of a mountain, people were just competing to see who could set the record for going the highest in an unpressurized weather balloon. And once someone had survived going to 29,000 feet, other people would try going to 29,050 feet, and some of them would die, and one person would make it, and then people would try going to 29,070 feet, and so on and so on with no real end...
 
I believe the following belongs in this thread because it sheds light on the difficulties and the mindset of deep diving and especially upon deep diving in pursuit of a record. If MODs believe otherwise we can spin off a different thread.

For people wondering about these dives I would suggest two books
Fatally Flawed - The Quest to be Deepest by Verna Schaik
Raising the Dead: A True Story of Death and Survival by Phillip Finch

The first is written by the lady holding for (quite) some time the record for deep diving and the second concerns the attempt (some would call it a success) by Dave Shaw of recovering the body of Deon Dreyer. Out of that dive Don Shirley managed to survive.

These books elaborate on what it takes in term of mind set and logistics to put together such a dive.
Also if you look at Gabr's dive or Nuno Gomez dives there was a bit more training and work up to the dives. I dare not judge from my armchair and maybe all of the training so well described in those books is not (yet) apparent in this attempt ... but reading up about those dives make you wonder what are the reasons why you would do the dive. Verna in this is master in analysing the mind set. She was also the dive marshal of Dave's fatal dive.
About the mentioned records:
Inside the World's Deepest Dive with Egyptian Ahmed Gabr
New Page – Nuno Gomes

The books are very good readings and they are available on Kindle.

This part of the story gives me a shiver:
“As the meters passed, the HPNS intensified. Symptoms include tremors, jerking, intense sleepiness, nausea, dizziness, disturbance in vision and decreased mental performance – all potential causes for a fatal error. And symptoms remain until pressure is stabilized.

Gabr’s training and years of experience has bolstered his control and confidence underwater. But one of the most vital skills for a deep diver is knowing when to turn back.

At 332.35 meters, his body shaking, aware that his goal was just over 15 meters away, aware of the almost 14 hours still ahead of him, Gabr grabbed the depth tag on the rope and turned back.”
 
66649459_1620112028122895_3887215985819648000_o.jpg


4th of July - Sebastian's helmet with dive computer was lowered on the Gralmarine's ROV to the bottom of the dive attempt spot to confirm depth (hence the quick 22min dive in the dive log to 333m on the pictures from the dive computer posted above). It took ROV 11 mins to get down to the bottom. You can see on the bottom right corner outside temperature reading - 8 degrees Celsius.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

Climbing Everest is not done by people today who want to set a record, or to do something that's never been done before. It's done by people who want to climb Mt. Everest, for whatever reason. Just like I would like to dive the Andrea Doria. Not because no one has done it before, but because I might want that experience.

I guess a better altitude analogy would be that instead of going to the top of a mountain, people were just competing to see who could set the record for going the highest in an unpressurized weather balloon. And once someone had survived going to 29,000 feet, other people would try going to 29,050 feet, and some of them would die, and one person would make it, and then people would try going to 29,070 feet, and so on and so on with no real end...
What is difference if someone decided to go beyond 330m?
Because it is there!
Plenty of modern day Everest summitters do not need to swing an ice axe, break the trail or even hit a piton. All they need is DEEP POCKET and the elementary use of crampon and the ascender. There are even aluminium leader to aid them to cross crevasses instead of Tyrolean Traverse. For them "deadman" means just that instead of the anchor.

Merit plays no part in human adventure.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

Climbing Everest is not done by people today who want to set a record, or to do something that's never been done before. It's done by people who want to climb Mt. Everest, for whatever reason. Just like I would like to dive the Andrea Doria. Not because no one has done it before, but because I might want that experience.

I guess a better altitude analogy would be that instead of going to the top of a mountain, people were just competing to see who could set the record for going the highest in an unpressurized weather balloon. And once someone had survived going to 29,000 feet, other people would try going to 29,050 feet, and some of them would die, and one person would make it, and then people would try going to 29,070 feet, and so on and so on with no real end...

In response to "why climb Mount Everest ", Mallory replied "because it's there"
 
Sorry, should have been more specific about what I was asking. I wasn't asking for anything that he told you in confidence, nor would I ask.

Your post made me intrigued as to the after effects(physilogically) of such a dive. I never really thought about it because I never knew people really suffered long term issues after completing such a dive. That is until you made your post. Thanks for the insight as not too people know such a diver.

There are other way more qualified ( @Duke Dive Medicine amongst many others here) but my understanding, based on the conversations with Ahmed and Nuno's experiences etc:

We gloss over the whole pressure issue in OW training ("only the air spaces matter, the liquids in your body don't compress, don't worry about it..."). Once you get to serious depths though, those effects can't be ignored. There are pressure differentials due to different compressibility indexes in your body (think bone vs blood vs fat etc) and these can play a role in how your blood circulates and then to how you offgas later on.

This is NOT necessarily what happened to Ahmed but one of the concerns his doctors had going in: If you have ANY constrictions on you, which change during the dive (think shifting wetsuit, moving straps on harness, BP shift etc) then there can be pockets of tissue which may ongas differently and then later offgas differently. Lets say your BP restricted capillary and smaller vessel flow in the spinal region during the offgas phase with the most likelihood of bubbling. In that case, it is possible that a "trapped" bubble will form in those vessels, and that bubble may or may not be released at some time. If the vessels are blocked, then there will be tissue damage due to oxygen deprivation, depending on how long it is blocked. Where this tissue is and the size of the affected area will affect what, if any, symptoms you may present with.

Hypothetical: Tissue alongside the spine is cut off from blood flow, there is also a mechanical force on the nerves in the area due to the actual bubble. You then spend 14-15 hours with no blood flow to that area during deco. That will not pass without some long term effects. Meanwhile, your deco passes and the bubble reduces back to negligible size and thus no "classic" DCS symptoms. However, you now have long term nerve damage in a (fairly random) part of your body.

At 332.35 meters, his body shaking, aware that his goal was just over 15 meters away, aware of the almost 14 hours still ahead of him, Gabr grabbed the depth tag on the rope and turned back

Both Nuno and Ahmed had the same plan going in: at the very first sign of HPNS (or any unplanned event), they were done. Nuno had his hand reached out for the next tag and he saw it twitch, he ascended immediately. Ahmed had exactly the same plan and did the same thing, it was a little easier for him since his next tag was clearly out of reach, IIRC Nuno was about a metre or two from his next one. That takes an INSANE amount of discipline, which is why Nuno and Ahmed are still around to talk about it after the kind of dives they have done, even excluding the record dives.

To the incident at hand, I do not believe either of them would have continued with the attempt if ANY planned element of the dive was missing/inoperative. That would include the weather and definitely a missing deep support diver.
 
[...]
That takes an INSANE amount of discipline, which is why Nuno and Ahmed are still around to talk about it after the kind of dives they have done, even excluding the record dives.

To the incident at hand, I do not believe either of them would have continued with the attempt if ANY planned element of the dive was missing/inoperative. That would include the weather and definitely a missing deep support diver.

This is key.
Although no plan survives impact with reality, planning is everything (you weight options, course of action, branches and contingencies) and sticking to the plan is key. It reduces the amount of thinking and speeds up the decision making.
This applies to all dangerous endeavours (flight fights diplomatic confrontations and well ... diving). The discipline to stick to the plan and abort when it is still an option becomes harder and harder to closer you are to achieve the goal, but it also becomes more important.
 
Don't you feel that the glorification of these record attempts has some responsibility for these deaths?
I don't see it as being much different than any other extreme sport and theres only been 7-8 deaths since 1994 since Exley (1994)- thats hardly an epidemic of lemming divers, so I think its a stretch to say that glorification of the dive has contributed to more deaths , compare that with other sports eg Everest over 270+ deaths in the same timeline.
Whether its Everest or Andria Doria were all motivated by personal goals and ego - i wouldn't demonise anyone because a person wants to reach their personal goal regardless of whether I agree with it our not. Just because its not my goal doesnt mean its wrong.
I used to be professional mountaineer- Approximately 14 people ive known have died in the mountains including a few on Everest. I stopped climbing because those that i knew that died were highly skilled professionals and i come to the realisation that its was just statistical probability that if you keep pushing the envelope your going to get caught out one day.

Put aside the deepest dive world record attempt - what about the longest cave penetration or the pushing to discover a new cave system or a wreck that has never been penetrated - its all the same thing really - being the first. One team of divers reaches point X and the next team try to go further and on we go until someone dies - its tragic but its part of being human.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom